[JSFMACLJR]

Originally Posted by Chas

Because of it's military connections, I think that the Black Watch tartan should always be pleated to the stripe.

Regards

Chas

And if you are a Campbell?

[JolyStNicholas]

I too being a proud owner and wearer of the "Famous" BW Kilt do love them both! Now seeing the pictures to compare them, I now have to buy another BW kilt! GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!

[Chas]

Originally Posted by Chas

Because of it's military connections, I think that the Black Watch tartan should always be pleated to the stripe.
Regards
Chas

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

And if you are a Campbell?

Sorry, I am probably being very dense here, but I don't understand the question.

Besides the Black Watch there are other Campbell tartans:

Campbell of Breadalbane, Campbell of Cawdor and Campbell of Loudoun. They have their choice, but if a Campbell wants to wear the tartan called the Black Watch, he really can't ignore the history that goes with it. Since 1725 the tartan and the regiment have been linked, not only in this country and the Commonwealth, but the rest of the world as well.

The OP is a Keeney not a Campbell so he is at liberty to use the pleating of his choice. He can pleat to the sett, to 'stand out' or be 'different', but in reality the only people who would notice (if at all) are other kilt wearers. If he pleats to the stripe he has the weight of history behind him.

I have no wish to be argumentative, but is there something I am missing?

Regards

Chas

[JSFMACLJR]

Originally Posted by Chas

Sorry, I am probably being very dense here, but I don't understand the question.

Besides the Black Watch there are other Campbell tartans:

Campbell of Breadalbane, Campbell of Cawdor and Campbell of Loudoun. They have their choice, but if a Campbell wants to wear the tartan called the Black Watch, he really can't ignore the history that goes with it. Since 1725 the tartan and the regiment have been linked, not only in this country and the Commonwealth, but the rest of the world as well.

The OP is a Keeney not a Campbell so he is at liberty to use the pleating of his choice. He can pleat to the sett, to 'stand out' or be 'different', but in reality the only people who would notice (if at all) are other kilt wearers. If he pleats to the stripe he has the weight of history behind him.

I have no wish to be argumentative, but is there something I am missing?

Regards

Chas

Hi Chas,

What you might be missing is the fact that the Black Watch tartan is the Campbell tartan. I was curious about your statement "that the Black Watch tartan should always be pleated to the stripe." Are you saying that all Campbells ( except those of Cawdor, Breadalbane, and Loudoun ) should have their kilt pleated to the stripe, or should this just apply to those who wear the tartan as a "universal" tartan?

PS. Most of the Campbells I have met in Argyll (Argyll himself, Strachur, Airds, Lochnell) all wear the kilt pleated to the sett, of course. This ties in to some of the comments of Jock Scot in his fascinating thread about "theory and practice."

[Chas]

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

Hi Chas,

What you might be missing is the fact that the Black Watch tartan is the Campbell tartan. I was curious about your statement "that the Black Watch tartan should always be pleated to the stripe." Are you saying that all Campbells ( except those of Cawdor, Breadalbane, and Loudoun ) should have their kilt pleated to the stripe, or should this just apply to those who wear the tartan as a "universal" tartan?

PS. Most of the Campbells I have met in Argyll (Argyll himself, Strachur, Airds, Lochnell) all wear the kilt pleated to the sett, of course. This ties in to some of the comments of Jock Scot in his fascinating thread about "theory and practice."

In truth, I don't quite know what I am saying. Bear with me - I am thinking this through as I am typing. Except for the picture that John (English Bloke) posted, I have only ever seen the Black Watch pleated to the Stripe.

Although the Black Watch and the Campbell tartan is one and the same, I think that they are different, depending on where one stands.

If one is a Campbell, one would see the tartan as the Campbell tartan and would presumably pleat it to the sett as is the current Scottish fashion.

On the other hand, the OP was talking about the length of Black Watch tartan that he had. As far as I know the Black Watch, for uniformity, pleated to the stripe. It wasn't till you asked the question:

And if you are a Campbell?

that I remembered that it was also a clan tartan. I don't know if I am the only one here on XMarks who sees the tartan as universal and forgets about the Campbell connection.

So I would say that John's kilt was in the Campbell tartan as it is pleated to the sett and the same tartan pleated to the stripe becomes the Black Watch tartan because that is the way they have always done it.

I think that's what I mean.

Regards

Chas

[cajunscot]

that I remembered that it was also a clan tartan. I don't know if I am the only one here on XMarks who sees the tartan as universal and forgets about the Campbell connection.

And the Grants, Munros, etc.

T.

[English Bloke]

Originally Posted by Chas

... So I would say that John's kilt was in the Campbell tartan as it is pleated to the sett and the same tartan pleated to the stripe becomes the Black Watch tartan because that is the way they have always done it...

Chas

No, John's Kilt is in the Grant Hunting tartan, pleated to sett but it could be a Campbell Kilt as it could also be a Munro Hunting Kilt as it could also be Black Watch. Either way, it's pleated to sett.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Remember folks that what we are talking about here really boils down to personal preference. There is no rule that says, "If you are wearing it as a clan tartan it should be pleated to the sett, if you are wearing it as a military tartan, it should be pleated to the stripe, etc."

I have a friend who wears this tartan as Grant Hunting, because he is a Grant. His father served in the Black Watch and to honor this he chose to have his kilt pleated the same way the Black Watch regiment did.

I know Campbells who wear this tartan as their clan tartan who choose to have it pleated to stripe. Undoubtedly, to the sett is most common.

The way the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders pleated this tartan was to the stripe, using the black stripe on the green. Contrast this to the way the Black Watch pleated the kilts, which was to the double black stripe on the blue (yes, they had to tweak the pattern a bit to do this because of the size of the sett). This giave the A&S kilts and the BW kilts very different looks from the back. One was mostly green, the other very dark blue.

You are wearing the tartan as a civilian, so you don't have to be concerned with uniform restrictions. You can, of course, have the kilt pleated any way you fancy. I, and others, would be inclined to lean towards pleating to the stripe, as a way to pay homage to the military origins of the tartan. But if you prefer pleating to the sett, go for it.

[Rollo]

Matt's explanations are always brilliant !
I envy his friends !

[Mark Keeney]

Thank you for all the information it has been very helpful. I still don't know how I want it pleated but I am more informed than when I started.

I will probably pleat to a stripe because only one of my kilts is pleated to the stripe. The others are all to the set.