X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website The Scottish Trading Company
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    7,543
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes kiltmakers here have explained that they need a single line that's flanked by plain stripes wide enough so that unwanted areas don't peek in, where the pleats get a bit wider due to the flair.

    The military Black Watch-based tartans are ideal for that.

    BTW if I recall correctly from seeing the House Of Edgar swatch-books the "background" dark blue and dark green used in their Modern range isn't as dark as I've seen in other fabrics. I've seen some tartan where the blue and green are extremely dark.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  2. #12
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,013
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rather than continue to hijack the fabric weight thread, I'm returning to this thread for further thoughts about this project. I wanted to post some information here that I'll need to refer to later.

    I took a more careful look today at my existing military kilt, and I might have been mistaken about the cloth weight and other details. It's impossible for me to actually count the threads in the sett since they're so dark and the cloth has so much nap/fuzz to it. But measuring the white stripes, which are 10 threads wide, they are right at 1/4" wide. That would extrapolate to somewhere around 40 threads per inch, which is more in the range of 16oz cloth than a heavier 18-22oz regimental tartan, which would probably be around 32TPI or less. This cloth feels more substantial/thicker in my hand than my other 16oz kilts, but that may have to do with decades of brushing which raises the 'hairs' on the wool. Of course, I'd still like an 18oz or heavier tartan for my MBP project, but if it turns out that 16oz is all I can get, it may still be comparable to my military kilt.

    Some measurements from my QOH kilt: pleats are 5/8" wide at the visible rolled/folded portion. Rise is 2-3/4" from center of top buckles.

    On the sett size, I've been thinking I needed the largest sett possible to simulate the military kilt. But actually, it is pleated to the half-sett. Meaning there are two white lines in each full set, and each of them are used in the pleats. The total sett size is huge, of course, at 11-1/8". But being pleated to the half-sett, each pleat is around 5-1/2" of material. Meaning that a 'normal' sett size of 5-1/2" should actually be fine, as I'll be pleating to the red stripe in the Colquhoun tartan, and it only occurs once in each sett repeat.

    So with that in mind, Shaun, how did your kiltmaker handle the pleating of such a huge sett on your Smith kilt? With it pleated to the red stripes, it would seem that your pleats are really, really deep. Was it as simple as just more layers of overlapping pleats underneath?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    30th September 08
    Location
    Cypress, Texas
    Posts
    1,120
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    So with that in mind, Shaun, how did your kiltmaker handle the pleating of such a huge sett on your Smith kilt? With it pleated to the red stripes, it would seem that your pleats are really, really deep. Was it as simple as just more layers of overlapping pleats underneath?
    My kiltmaker made the kilt using standard knife pleats, consequently, the kilt has REALLY deep pleats:





    It’s about 11” between red stripes, and there are 18 pleats, which is far fewer than the military kilt you’d shown as an example. I guess the trade-off for the large sett is fewer pleats, unless it’s pleated in a different way. I’d say there’s the potential for the kilt to be very heavy if the sett size is too large, using another pleating method that would allow for more stripes. I’m sure you’ll be able to strike a balance if you’re having it custom woven.

    Shaun Maxwell
    Vice President & Texas Commissioner
    Clan Maxwell Society

  4. The Following User Says 'Aye' to ShaunMaxwell For This Useful Post:


  5. #14
    Join Date
    8th November 17
    Location
    Clearwater, Florida, USA
    Posts
    170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by StevieR View Post
    Yes, eight months or so for my tartan. I thought it worth the wait though. House of Edgar might be your best bet then - they produce “Regimental “ weight cloth and I know they have woven to order before, also I believe they will leave the cloth “in the grease” if you’d like. I’ve no idea what their minimum run might be though.
    What does "in the grease mean"? I've seen in referenced here at the forum once before. I did a quick google search and now know more than ever about the movie "Grease" and how to get grease stains out of clothing but not, I think, what I was looking for.
    At a time like this one must ask themselves, 'WWJDD"
    What Would Jimmy Durante Do?

  6. #15
    Join Date
    23rd November 16
    Location
    Newport, NC, USA
    Posts
    64
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is my Guthrie modern, to illustrate a similar effect to what you're aiming for, though with knife pleats. This one is pleated to the double red line, but you get the idea. It also shows how the red pops next to the modern colors darker green, blue and black of the 16 oz. Locharron cloth.

    Guthrie Mod to stripe.jpg

  7. #16
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,013
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobinn View Post
    What does "in the grease mean"? I've seen in referenced here at the forum once before. I did a quick google search and now know more than ever about the movie "Grease" and how to get grease stains out of clothing but not, I think, what I was looking for.
    It means cloth that is not finished (washed, pressed, etc.) after weaving.

  8. #17
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,013
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by StevieR View Post
    Yes, eight months or so for my tartan. I thought it worth the wait though. House of Edgar might be your best bet then - they produce “Regimental “ weight cloth and I know they have woven to order before, also I believe they will leave the cloth “in the grease” if you’d like. I’ve no idea what their minimum run might be though.
    Just FYI, I contacted House of Edgar to ask about this option. They said that they could weave my clan tartan in a regimental (18oz) weight, but they are a wholesaler and won't deal directly with the public. So their answer was basically "no", unless I wanted to find a local retailer to order it for me. They wouldn't answer the question of minimum length for an order.

    That's disappointing. I don't understand that logic. Money is money, regardless of who orders it. Their business model forces me to pay a middle man if I want their product.

  9. #18
    Join Date
    23rd April 12
    Location
    Eatern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    Just FYI, I contacted House of Edgar to ask about this option. They said that they could weave my clan tartan in a regimental (18oz) weight, but they are a wholesaler and won't deal directly with the public. So their answer was basically "no", unless I wanted to find a local retailer to order it for me. They wouldn't answer the question of minimum length for an order.

    That's disappointing. I don't understand that logic. Money is money, regardless of who orders it. Their business model forces me to pay a middle man if I want their product.
    For sake of argument say cloth retails at $100/yd and the retailer buys it at $70. The retailer expects to make $30/yd. If the manufacturer sells to the public for less or even at the retail price the retailer, who in good faith has agreed to carry the product is being undercut or losing sales so instead choses to deal with manufacturers who don't steal his customers. Even if the manufacturer sells the odd bolt for full retail and keeps the extra $30/yd , in the long run he hurts his overall brand and distribution.

  10. The Following User Says 'Aye' to bodhran4me For This Useful Post:


  11. #19
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,013
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bodhran4me View Post
    For sake of argument say cloth retails at $100/yd and the retailer buys it at $70. The retailer expects to make $30/yd. If the manufacturer sells to the public for less or even at the retail price the retailer, who in good faith has agreed to carry the product is being undercut or losing sales so instead choses to deal with manufacturers who don't steal his customers. Even if the manufacturer sells the odd bolt for full retail and keeps the extra $30/yd , in the long run he hurts his overall brand and distribution.
    Well, OK, I guess I do understand that. It's still frustrating to me as a consumer, having to pay an inflated price and having to translate my wishes through a third party. The idea of dealer networks and approved retailers is sort of old-fashioned in the modern economy. It made a lot more sense before the internet, when consumers shopped locally. But distribution today doesn't have to work like that, as many other manufacturers have discovered. Whatever, though ... it is what it is. I've asked them to send me a retailer contact on this side of the Atlantic to see if they can get me a price and minimum yardage quote. I already know what it's going to cost me for a 16oz custom weave from another mill, and I'll just have to decide if it's worth the extra cost to go to 18oz cloth.

    So, moving on to the design. As I've been thinking about this project, I've sort of shifted gears a little bit. I was thinking about something figheadair had posted a while back, and the example of Colquhoun tartan that was woven in Wilsons colours. This was the photo he posted that is in the Highland Society of London's collection.



    If I'm going to go to the trouble and expense of a custom weave to get a larger sett width like I want, I think I might shift from the Modern colour scheme to something closer to Wilsons colours (trying to use available yarn colours to avoid a custom dye charge). It will change the look of my military box-pleated kilt a little bit away from a dark regimental-looking tartan, but I think I may be happier with the overall look. I can't get an exact replica of those colours, but I think I can approximate it by using the Modern colours for all but the green. That would have to switch to a more olive shade rather than the bottle green typically used.

    I've attempted to mock up the tartan with this pseudo-Wilsons look. It would look something like this:



    Thinking further about it being pleated to the red stripe with military box pleats that are around 5/8" wide, and using a bigger sett width that has a wider red stripe than normal, the pleats would come out looking like this:

    Last edited by Tobus; 20th December 18 at 07:11 AM.

  12. #20
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Crieff, Perthshire
    Posts
    3,499
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    Well, OK, I guess I do understand that. It's still frustrating to me as a consumer, having to pay an inflated price and having to translate my wishes through a third party. The idea of dealer networks and approved retailers is sort of old-fashioned in the modern economy. It made a lot more sense before the internet, when consumers shopped locally. But distribution today doesn't have to work like that, as many other manufacturers have discovered. Whatever, though ... it is what it is. I've asked them to send me a retailer contact on this side of the Atlantic to see if they can get me a price and minimum yardage quote. I already know what it's going to cost me for a 16oz custom weave from another mill, and I'll just have to decide if it's worth the extra cost to go to 18oz cloth.

    So, moving on to the design. As I've been thinking about this project, I've sort of shifted gears a little bit. I was thinking about something figheadair had posted a while back, and the example of Colquhoun tartan that was woven in Wilsons colours. This was the photo he posted that is in the Highland Society of London's collection.

    HoE's 18oz weight is nice cloth, unfortunately their shades are somewhat off a good match to Wilsons'.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0