exceptions to tradition: the Queen

**Mike_Oettle** · 1st November 10, 04:58 AM

A question from my wife last night brought back to mind an aspect of kilt lore that I had almost forgotten.
I mentioned a point made by Jock Scot that in the Highlands, wearing a kilt with underwear rendered the kilt a mere skirt (improper wear for men).
And she asked: what about the tradition that an exception is made when a Queen is on the throne?
Now when I was with my regiment, some mention was made of such an exception, but nobody paid much attention to it. I never did quite figure out whether that was because it was a non-existent exception or because we no longer had a Queen (South Africa having been a republic for close on a decade when I first joined the regiment.)
In other words, was this an actual part of tradition, or something apocryphal, like the unwritten law that a sgian dubh has to draw blood before being sheathed?
So would Jock or some other knowledgeable Scot enlighten us: Is there any truth at all in the belief that the presence of a Queen Regnant on the throne would make any difference to the tradition?
My feeling is that it would not, but I would like to satisfy my wife with an authoritative answer.
Regards,
Mike

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 1st November 10, 05:04 AM

It really doesn't matter what anyone does or does not wear under his kilt -- it's no one's business except the wearer's.

Jock's statement that wearing underwear makes it a skirt was just a bit of kilt wearing humor.

**Jock Scot** · 1st November 10, 05:14 AM

I have to confess that I have not come across that one. I did not serve in a Scottish regiment so perhaps some one who does, or did, may know of something? There are several pictures on the Internet of kilted Scottish soldiers on parade and even in the presence of Her Majesty that seem ,rather graphically, to indicate that they had not heard of this "tradition" either!

**Tobus** · 1st November 10, 05:29 AM

There are several pictures on the Internet of kilted Scottish soldiers on parade and even in the presence of Her Majesty that seem ,rather graphically, to indicate that they had not heard of this "tradition" either!

My thoughts exactly. With such evidence in hand, it would seem to indicate that such a tradition of wearing underwear around the Queen is merely rumor (or perhaps those Scottish soldiers in the pictures are openly flaunting it, which seems unlikely).

**Mike_Oettle** · 1st November 10, 05:32 AM

Thank you, Jock, for such a prompt response. When my wife asked me, I had that very picture in mind!

And Matt, yes, the humorous aspect of Jock’s remark was not lost on me!
Regards,
Mike

**McClef** · 1st November 10, 05:53 AM

The picture that I think that everyone is referring to was doctored.

I am sure that Her Majesty does not carry a mirror on a stick when in the company of kilted soldiers.

**Canuck of NI** · 1st November 10, 05:57 AM

Thinking back to the story of the origin of the kilt pin, where a squaddie's kilt was blowing up and Victoria gave him a pin to preserve his modesty, what was the undergarment status in that case? That should tell us something.

**Urchurdan** · 1st November 10, 06:05 AM

I was taught all I know about kilts by my Maternal Grandfather who fought kilted with the Argyll's in WW1. As far as I could garner from him, they did in the main wear underwear in the cold weather, and did not in the main in the hot weather due to lice - it was easier to go without.
There is one thing he did always stress, that it was not good manners to discuss whether you did or not with ANYONE else. I find it mildly discomforting that men feel the need to discuss this entirely private matter at all.....

**Jock Scot** · 1st November 10, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by McClef

The picture that I think that everyone is referring to was doctored.

I am sure that Her Majesty does not carry a mirror on a stick when in the company of kilted soldiers.

Quite right Trefor, the original picture didn't have certain aspects blacked out!

Come on chaps Her Majesty knows what is what, her husband and eldest son wear the kilt ! As Matt quite correctly points out, what people wear under the kilt is no one's business other than their own. Although I suspect a Sarn't Major, or two, will most certainly think otherwise in circumstances that they are involved with!

**Mike_Oettle** · 1st November 10, 06:29 AM

Trefor, it seems we are thinking about a different picture.
The one I have in mind is a formal group of regimental officers , seated, with Her Majesty in the middle. On her right (left as you look at the picture) is a young subaltern who has forgotten to push his sporran down between his knees, revealing the obvious, all the while with a silly grin on his face.
The picture you have in mind is more in keeping with a sergeant-major's behaviour!
Regards,
Mike