[Hugh Anstruther Rance]

Hello to everyone on this interesting website. I am looking for some advice about 2 kilts, a sporran and some silver dress buttons that came down to me through my mother's side of the family.

The tartan is Graham (my mother was a Maxtone Graham). I would be grateful if someone can tell me what age the pleated kilt is, as it is possible it belonged to Thomas Graham, Lord Lynedoch who was my ancestor.

The great kilt is a full width broadloom kilt and I believe it may be from the 18th century. It has a silk embroidered family monogram in the corner. If someone knows the age of this, I would also be grateful.

The silver dress buttons may be Victorian or Edwardian. I expect it is hard to tell without a hallmark although they do appear to be solid silver rather than plated. I have a Scottish uncle who is keen to acquire some of these things from me but have no idea of their value at the moment. If anyone can give me some indication so that we can agree a mutually happy deal, it would be very helpful.

Here are links to the things:
http://picasaweb.google.com/hughranc...eat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/hughranc...eat=directlink

And if anyone is interested to see the extremely fine silk dress breeches that Lord Lynedoch wore on a night out at the ball, there are here, along with his white leather hunting breeches:
http://picasaweb.google.com/hughranc...eat=directlink

Thank you in advance for any advice you can give.

With best wishes,

Hugh

[McMurdo]

From another Graham

While I'm not sure of the age, I just wanted to say you have a lovely collection there. I think perhaps someone like Matt Newsome from the Scottish Tartan Museum might be able to help you date if he saw the kilt up close.

[Chas]

Hello and welcome Hugh,

I have a concern about the 'silver' buttons. Silver tarnishes with handling, and very quickly. Unless you know differently and the buttons have been cleaned very recently, I do not think that they are silver. There should be hallmarks. The buttons could very well be aluminium or pewter (possibly the older lead pewter).

Regards from Norfolk, England.

Chas

[Hugh Anstruther Rance]

Hi McMurdo and thanks for your reply. I did write to Matthew at the beginning of January but didn't get a reply. If you know him, would you be very kind and forward a link to my post to him? Perhaps he had a different email address from the one I found for him.
Best wishes,
Hugh

[Hugh Anstruther Rance]

Thanks, I just cleaned the buttons. They were indeed tarnished. I understand that some Scottish silver was not hallmarked, particularly small items like buttons. Please don't be concerned, they are beautiful buttons whether silver or plated!

[Hugh Anstruther Rance]

I just had another and closer look at the buttons under a magnifying glass. There are numerous scratches on the back of the buttons where the split pins have been inserted over the years. On none of them is there any sign of another metal showing through. I would say they albeit that they are not hallmarked, they are silver. I appreciate that they can't be officially sold as silver without hallmarks, however, this does not detract from the very fine quality of the work in them. I play a solid silver flute, so at least I do know what silver looks and feels like, even if I can't date a kilt!

Greetings on a sunny afternoon in West Cork, Ireland.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Nice items! I don't recall getting any emails about this, so I apologize if your message was lost in the ether.

I'm certainly happy to give my opinion, for what it's worth. The tailored kilt, at a first glance, I would suggest might date to the very early 20th century. The style of pleating is interesting -- it's not pleated to the sett, but rather to a created pattern that resembles pleating to the sett. Kiltmakers began to expirament with pleating to the sett at the tail end of the 19th century.

I note the kilt also has buttons for braces, which were fairly common on nineteenth century kilts, but become less so as you move into the 20th century. A few other elements of it's make (the waistband, some of the stitching) greatly resemble some early 20th century kilts I've examined.

I also note that there is a seam in the pleats where two lengths of the tartan were joined to make the kilt. This suggests it was made from double width cloth that was split and joined. I should know when this began to be common practice, but I do not. It would also give a good indication of the date.

Re: the plaid, this is definitely older. I doubt that it was worn as a "great kilt." You don't mention the deminsions but from your photograph it looks more like a shawl or perhaps a small plaid to be worn by a man. I would assume it to date from the nineteenth century, but I cannot be more specific than that. If there is a tradition in your family that this belonged to Thomas Graham (d. 1843) I would certainly believe that to be a possibility.

However, the tailored kilt I would be very surprised to find dating to that period, it looks more recent to me.

I would suggest that Peter MacDonald, forum member, take a look at these photos. He's an expert in nineteenth century textiles, esp. tartan, and his opinion on the plaid in particular would be most valuable.

[HeathBar]

The brogue-ing on the straps is unique. That's a lot of work for something that is rarely seen. There is also a stitch that goes across the fell. It looks to have been done by a machine. Not sure what the function of that was. Maybe a post construction repair?

[Hugh Anstruther Rance]

Hi Matthew and thank you for your very interesting and detailed answer. What you say about the pleated kilt makes perfect sense. I read that prior to the mid 1850s such pleated kilts were only worn my the Scottish military and as my ancestor was General Lord Lyndoch, that is where I thought there might be a connection with him and this kilt. He lived between 1748 and 1843. He was independent to his last day aged 96 and got up, dressed himself and went about his business! At 92 he hurried home from Switzerland to welcome Queen Victoria to Scotland after her marriage.

The great kilt is 56 inches wide and 11 feet long. Are these not the dimensions of a great kilt? Here is the link again to photos, including a closeup of the weave. http://picasaweb.google.com/hughranc...eat=directlink

My uncle is trying to tally the initials in the monogram with the family tree as this would help give the kilt a latest date but so far we haven't figured out the initials. Anyone who would like to try and decipher them is welcome to try! http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink


Just in case anyone knows about Scottish gold rings, here are photos of a ring belonging to Thomas Graham, Lord Lynedoch. The ring whihc may have been his marriage band had an inner ring added to make it smaller, so the hallmark isn't visible. I understand it is Scottish gold and is soft pale yellow gold, probably 24k. The design has an ancient Celtic look but as yet I do not know it's age. If it is recent enough to be hallmarked, it may be necessary to have the inner ring removed by a jeweler to see.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hughranc...eat=directlink

[longhuntr74]

Originally Posted by Hugh Anstruther Rance

And if anyone is interested to see the extremely fine silk dress breeches that Lord Lynedoch wore on a night out at the ball, there are here, along with his white leather hunting breeches:
http://picasaweb.google.com/hughranc...eat=directlink

Hugh...I wanted to say thinks for posting this link. As a reenactor that makes his own clothing, it's always great to see original garments so that you can examine the design, the stitching, the finishing, etc. These closeup pics are superb and I found them very useful. Thank you!

PS...I liked the kilt and button pics too....