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  1. #11
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    I assume you know for sure that the HoE Muted Munro has a sett size of 8 1/4"?

    If you want 21" in the pleats at the hips, the waist in the pleats is likely to be non-standard, too (i.e., you won't do the splits like you would for a trad kilt). So, for the sake of estimating, let's say that the waist will be split evenly and have 13" in the pleats.

    Pleat size at waist: 13/16"
    Pleat size at hips: 1 5/16"

    So, I scaled the Muted Munro thumbnail from the HoE site to a sett size of 8 1/4" and put the pleat size on it:



    If you want to see what the pleats will look like, you really need to do a composite with tapered pleats. I chopped out the relevant pleat piece outlined by the lines above and composited what the pleats would like with taper. Remember when you look at the image below that, above the waist, the pleats will be straight and not tapered, and ditto below the bottom of the fell. What you see below is as close to being in scale as possible, provided that the sett size is actually 8 1/4".



    Dunno if that helps or not.
    Kiltmaker, piper, and geologist (one of the few, the proud, with brains for rocks....
    Member, Scottish Tartans Authority
    Geology stuff (mostly) at http://people.hamilton.edu/btewksbu
    The Art of Kiltmaking at http://theartofkiltmaking.com

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmonroe View Post
    I believe that the House of Edgar Mediumweight Old & Rare Clan & District Tartans are all finished with a true selvedge. I could use a ribbon to finish the inside of the waistband.
    Yes - HoE medium weight tartan has a kilting selvedge. All kilting tartan of medium and heavy weight does, and many 11 oz tartans now do as well (although this is not universally true).

    You could use a ribbon for the inside of the top band, but you wouldn't gain anything. A top band on a kilt is put on differently than the waist band on a skirt, and all you need to have is enough to stitch a seam at the top edge of the kilt and fold it just over the top. The lining is stitched by hand about 1/8" below to top edge of the kilt on the inside, so all you have to do is have enough tartan to come just over the top edge and about 1/4" down on the inside of the kilt (i.e., it doesn't get folded double like a waist band). So I've made do with a strip of tartan less than an inch wide for a long kilt in the past. And, on one occasion, I had a guy who was so tall that there was NOTHING left for a top band, so I used a cross-wise strip and just didn't match the tartan in the apron. It's under the belt anyway, so that's an OK last ditch resort.

    And if you're making something kilt-like, and not a trad kilt, it wouldn't occur to anyone to notice that the tartan in the top band doesn't match the tartan in the apron.
    Last edited by Barb T; 16th December 19 at 08:03 AM.
    Kiltmaker, piper, and geologist (one of the few, the proud, with brains for rocks....
    Member, Scottish Tartans Authority
    Geology stuff (mostly) at http://people.hamilton.edu/btewksbu
    The Art of Kiltmaking at http://theartofkiltmaking.com

  3. #13
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    15th December 19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barb T View Post
    Dunno if that helps or not.
    That is incredibly helpful! You are going so above and beyond in my project and I am very grateful.

    HoE says that the sett size is 21cm which is 8.27".

    It looks like 7/8" at the waist to 1 5/16" at the hip would maintain the same split at waist and hip as a percentage. That would make the waist 14" pleats/12" apron and the hip 21" pleats/18" apron. However, I am about to turn 30 and unfortunately expect that I won't have my waist size forever. Would you suggest adjusting the split accordingly? I'm sure you go over this in your book, which arrives to me on Thursday.

    It also surprises me that we aren't factoring in any ease - is that built into the apron pleats and therefore unnecessary here? This is all very different from sewing a dress from a pattern! I'm used to buying the suggested fabric amount and adding a couple of pattern repeats to make sure I can match seams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb T View Post
    A top band on a kilt is put on differently than the waist band on a skirt, and all you need to have is enough to stitch a seam at the top edge of the kilt and fold it just over the top. The lining is stitched by hand about 1/8" below to top edge of the kilt on the inside, so all you have to do is have enough tartan to come just over the top edge and about 1/4" down on the inside of the kilt (i.e., it doesn't get folded double like a waist band)
    I'm sure I'll have a better idea after reading through your book when it arrives! But it sounds to me like it's more like binding a seam than attaching a waistband.

    Thank you again for all of the information! I am so excited for this project. I'll wait to buy the real fabric until I've read through the book and have practiced matching some scrap plaid for 16 pleats to make sure it's within my capabilities.

  4. #14
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    My long reply somehow seems to have been deleted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb T View Post
    Dunno if that helps or not.
    That was very, very helpful. Thank you so much for going so above and beyond for my project. It seems like the next step is to try practicing 16 precise pleats on cheap plaid and wait for your book to arrive (on Thursday!) and read through it. I will come back with any questions before buying my fabric!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmonroe View Post
    It also surprises me that we aren't factoring in any ease.
    A kilt actually fits close to the body - it can't be worn loose, so there isn't any "ease", as there would be with a dress or a shirt. The way to factor in potential future growth is to make the kilt measurements an inch or more bigger than the current measurements but put the buckles on at the person's current size. That way, the kilt fits snugly now but the buckles can be moved when the person gets bigger (see http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-larger-78931/).


    Quote Originally Posted by hmonroe View Post
    It seems like the next step is to try practicing 16 precise pleats on cheap plaid.
    It's actually much easier to stitch and shape pleats in wool kilting tartan than it is in cheap poly or cotton fabric. Because you stitch only one pleat at at time when making a kilt, and because you can always take a pleat out, you could just wait to practice until you get your tartan.
    Kiltmaker, piper, and geologist (one of the few, the proud, with brains for rocks....
    Member, Scottish Tartans Authority
    Geology stuff (mostly) at http://people.hamilton.edu/btewksbu
    The Art of Kiltmaking at http://theartofkiltmaking.com

  6. #16
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    I just wanted to update this with my (minimal) progress so far! I decided on

    1) a pleating scheme: per Pleater's suggestion, I will be doing a reverse Kingussie pleated to the red block
    2) my splits: per Barbara's book to accommodate a prominent seat, I will do 18 pleats with 14"A/13.5"P for the waist and 20"A/21.375"P for the hips, which should be about 1.5" too big in circumference and thus accommodate weight changes. I will place the buckles a little tighter for my current weight
    3) to maximize length, I will do a crosswise grain waistband - hopefully it will match relatively well

    I started my pleating but wasn't happy with the stripe matching so just ripped it out and will start again. But I have attached a picture of the first couple of pleats from before the ripping to give an idea of how it will look! It became clear upon stretching it out that I wouldn't be happy with the stripes, which were about one thread off in several places.

    IMG_20200207_180002.jpg

    Thanks for all of the help so far!

  7. #17
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    Hi,

    Were you intending to stitch the pleats according to the method in The Art of Kiltmaking? If so, you haven't done it the way that's shown in the book. It looks like you've folded and pinned a pleat and are stitching it down to just one thickness of the tartan (but maybe I'm misinterpreting your picture?). In the book, the instructions are to fold the next pleat to the correct width and sew the previous pleat to the newly folded one through two thickness so that you can run your hand along the edge of the pleat as you sew, rather than bunching all the fabric up in your left hand. Stitching through only one thickness is a method I would use for a box pleated kilt but not for knife pleats.

    Anyway, here's an illustration of the method in the book:

    Last edited by Barb T; 10th February 20 at 11:10 AM.
    Kiltmaker, piper, and geologist (one of the few, the proud, with brains for rocks....
    Member, Scottish Tartans Authority
    Geology stuff (mostly) at http://people.hamilton.edu/btewksbu
    The Art of Kiltmaking at http://theartofkiltmaking.com

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