[Daaaaang]

I can't find this anywhere (not all in one place, anyway). So, sorry if it has been discussed. I keep seeing it hinted at, so here we go.

What are the "rules" for dressing up (yes I know there are no rules wear what you want etc etc you know what I mean)? For example, the difference between "black tie" and "white tie". Or the difference between a tuxedo shirt and a button-up shirt (and when to wear which).

I've heard somewhere that only white bow ties go with a stand-up collar. Are there similar rules for the vest? Which jacket for what!

Here is a better-organised version of the above:

1. What are the "tiers" of dressing up, and where are the thresholds of what is okay within them?

2. What is the difference between a tuxedo shirt and a button-up shirt? It's not the collar, is it the pleating? The studs?

3. Which (kilt) jacket is acceptable (or "preferred," if you like the word better) at what tier? Be conservative, please.

4. Anything else you think is appropriate to mention!

As I am asking only for information purposes, please assume an inexhaustible budget. I'm not really looking for opinions as much as what the "rules" are, or were. If said rules don't exist, then hey, opinion away!

Thanks a bundle,
Matt!

[Panache]

Matt,

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Go to this link

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/a...ement.php?f=98

Look at the three threads. Each one offers a lot of different ideas about casual, dressy, and formal outfits. Note the range of individual looks in each catagory. Once you have done this you can get a better idea of your own look for each tier of kilted formality.

Cheers

Jamie

[escherblacksmith]

Although I do not always treat it as the foundation of all truth, Wikipedia I think is about right with this:

Formal Wear

what I like is that kilts can be worn in all of the categories . . .

[fluter]

If you haven't already seen it, check out Dr. Nick Fiddes' free e-book Kilts & Tartan Made Easy on the Kiltstore/Scotsweb site. It's a nice summary of kilted dress.

Hereinafter, please assume that every statement I make is preceded with "usually..." "IMHO" and so on

You seem to be addressing formal (black- or white-tie) occasions. Most such events are black-tie. The equivalent kilted dress is a Prince Charlie with its matching 3-button vest and black bow tie. FYI, what we call a tuxedo jacket is a (black) dinner jacket in the U.K.

In general, what distinguishes the tux shirt is the pleats and/or studs. There are slight variations.

Most guys in my neighborhood wear a wing collar ("stand-up") with black tie. You've probably heard me and a few other old fogies say we like our tux shirts to have spread collars. In my case, that's because my tastes were formed 40 years ago. You can ignore me and wear whichever one pleases you. 60 years prior to my time, shirts did not have collars at all: a starched collar closely resembling today's wing collar was used. I think today's wing collars are possibly a revival of an older style.

Another development since I was your age is a "formal" vest worn with the tux/dinner jacket. I am indifferent to these, I guess I'm still thinking about it.


"White tie" with troosers consists of a black tailcoat, a shirt and formal vest made of white pique (pronounced like the initials P.K.), and the white tie. It would be convenient to say that the PC is equivalent to black-tie, and a doublet is equivalent to white tie; but I don't think it's quite that simple. I will invite someone with more kilted experience to address that.

Another grey area is that a black wool Argyll jacket with silver buttons looks more formal than a business suit, so may make the transition into evening wear. Again, guidance is welcome.

Your mileage may vary. Kilt on!

[Daaaaang]

I agree about the wing collars. I think they look really weird, and much prefer the look of lay down collars. One of the reasons I started this whole thread was to clarify that it is not just "okay" to wear a lay down up through black tie, but that it is actually "proper".

Thanks for the articles too, everybody, they are really helpful.

If I ever need to go to a white tie event (my own wedding? I dunno) I will get the stand up collar, but until then, I'm happy to never have to touch one.

If anyone has anything else to say, I'm curious about how people feel.

Oh, and yes, I suppose I am talking only about formal wear. Have there ever been rules for casual attire? If there were, I doubt we would be as much of a disagreeing rabble as we are.

[Mr. MacDougall]

Originally Posted by Daaaaang

If I ever need to go to a white tie event (my own wedding? I dunno) I will get the stand up collar, but until then, I'm happy to never have to touch one.

A few years ago, my best friend was lamenting that she never had an occasion to wear her formal dress. So we invented one. We decided that our New Year's Party that year would be black tie. We printed invitations, gave them to our friends, specified black tie.

Come new year's eve, there were about fifty people in tuxedos and formal gowns in my house! Everyone looked great, we had a good time, and we looked smashing! Moral of the story: if you want to wear it, create an occasion, don't wait for one to come up!

[James MacMillan]

I don't think there are any rules that work any more - I try instead to think in terms of appropriate.

Beach wear for the beach! Hunting clothes to hunt in. Ski wear for sliding down the slopes. etc, etc, etc...

Appropriate clothes to fit the event.

A few years ago, no one would have thought that a black shirt would look nice with formal attire. But we have seen several members that manage to make it look very nice.

Just remember the golden question: "Honey, does this fill in the blank make me look fat?"

[Bugbear]

Hearing that always puts my mind at ease. I find myself avoiding really formal events though, it just feels like I don't belong, kilt or no kilt, just not the same crust. TE=James MacMillan;453972]I don't think there are any rules that work any more - I try instead to think in terms of appropriate.

Beach wear for the beach! Hunting clothes to hunt in. Ski wear for sliding down the slopes. etc, etc, etc...

Appropriate clothes to fit the event.

A few years ago, no one would have thought that a black shirt would look nice with formal attire. But we have seen several members that manage to make it look very nice.

Just remember the golden question: "Honey, does this fill in the blank make me look fat?" [/QUOTE]

[Daaaaang]

Originally Posted by Mr. MacDougall

A few years ago, my best friend was lamenting that she never had an occasion to wear her formal dress. So we invented one. We decided that our New Year's Party that year would be black tie. We printed invitations, gave them to our friends, specified black tie.

Come new year's eve, there were about fifty people in tuxedos and formal gowns in my house! Everyone looked great, we had a good time, and we looked smashing! Moral of the story: if you want to wear it, create an occasion, don't wait for one to come up!

I like to dress pretty formal all the time. My friends are used to it, and my acquaintances assume I always am on my way from or to some important event. It's funny how people just assume I am important, rather than it simply being my style.

My attitude is that if I'm going to pay for it, I'm going to wear it a lot, because the only expensive clothes are the clothes I don't wear.

[gilmore]

You might get a copy of Charles Thompson's "So You Are Going to Wear the Kilt." It's old, it's a bit dated, but it is reckoned to be the bible of proper kilt wearing.