[ccga3359]

Black tie or white remembers faded Levi's go with everything.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by Daaaaang

I agree about the wing collars. I think they look really weird, and much prefer the look of lay down collars. One of the reasons I started this whole thread was to clarify that it is not just "okay" to wear a lay down up through black tie, but that it is actually "proper".

If lay down collars were good enough for all the James Bond films and Old Blue eyes could you possibly need any other direction

[Cawdorian]

I like the look of the laydown or spread collar tux shirt, I think it goes very well with an Argyll jacket.

[thescot]

The fact is that most of us do not travel in very formal circles. A tux is something you rent; white tie is something we used to see magicians wear, so for those of us form the hinterlands, the rulse of dress are a little forwign. I think it's good to ask the questions.

Now I'll launch into a personal IMHO tirade which will, no doubt, infuriate the folks who balk at any rules whatsoever.

But, being old, crusty, and fairly conservative, I prefer the "traditional" way of dressing. The rules mentioned above as to white tie with white vest will serve well for truly formal affairs (as opposed to black tie, which is not formal). You can wear a charlie with a white, pique vest and white bow tie and be as well dressed as anyone in the place--and as appropriately so assuming there aren't any kilt-haters in the bunch. (If you go to a tryly high society event, there will be kilt haters. Being conspicuous is the ultimate faux pas.) But for really formal, I prefer a doublet. Now that's snazzy! And it is only really appropriate for evening, formal wear.

A black argyl with silver buttons is a good black tie alternative, too, if you put on a bow tie or plain, black long tie. Wear black leather with silver trimmings.

And one more "rule:" black tie if for after five o'clock, not for 2:00 PM. Many of us for whom a tux is a rarity think that wearing a tux or tails means you're really dressed up, no matter the hour. The fact is that a tux at noon makes you look like someone who doesn't know how to dress, and tails at noon are worse. With trousers, it's a swallow-tail coat for daytime; a black argyl would suffice with a kilt.

And one final "rule:" simply owning a piece of clothing doesn''t mean you have to wear it all the time. An evening plaid in the daytime is as bad as tails; it's simply out of place.

Contrary to the above, jeans are not OK with a tux jacket unless, of course, you are in high school or want to make a statement.

Now everyone can blast my conservative statements. And . . . you can wear whatever you darned well choose! The fashion police may cite you, but they won't arrest you.

[cacunn]

Originally Posted by thescot

Contrary to the above, jeans are not OK with a tux jacket unless, of course, you are in high school or want to make a statement.

Or from Texas, but only if you knock the Bull droppings off your silver toed boots before entering the house.

[cacunn]

IMHO - which is not worth much in that I rarely attend formal events - however, IMHO it would be better to be sighlty formally underdressed that to be overly formally dressed. To be overly formally dressed would stand out more than to be slightly under dressed.

[fluter]

Originally Posted by thescot

... I think it's good to ask the questions.

Now I'll launch into a personal IMHO tirade which will, no doubt, infuriate the folks who balk at any rules whatsoever.

If you're going to break the rules, it's useful to know what the darned rules are! Thanks for a nice overview.

[Daaaaang]

Originally Posted by thescot

And one more "rule:" black tie if for after five o'clock, not for 2:00 PM. Many of us for whom a tux is a rarity think that wearing a tux or tails means you're really dressed up, no matter the hour. The fact is that a tux at noon makes you look like someone who doesn't know how to dress, and tails at noon are worse. With trousers, it's a swallow-tail coat for daytime; a black argyl would suffice with a kilt.

This is not something I know anything about. Is it just the jacket that changes with the time of day, or is it the entire ensemble? By the rules, that is.

I totally plan on breaking the rules, but to echo fluter, I'd rather know what they are before I break them, so that I am at least aware that I'm breaking them.

[davedove]

And of course, all the rules are trumped by the host of the event. If someone wants to have an afternoon event and make it black tie, then that's how you should dress.

[fluter]

Originally Posted by Daaaaang

This is not something I know anything about. Is it just the jacket that changes with the time of day, or is it the entire ensemble? By the rules, that is.
.

I think daytime formal (morning dress) and possibly semi-formal uses striped gray trousers. Some of the links in the wikipedia.org article are very informative.

The morning dress article addresses a question that I had---namely, what's the kilted equivalent? Can anyone vouch for its accuracy?

It indicates that my charcoal grey jacket and vest would serve for morning formal, with appropriate tie and hose... That'd be nice, since I don't have a black jacket!