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  1. #1
    Join Date
    16th July 19
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    Another Question about the Argyll Jacket and Vest

    i have been through numerous threads on the forum looking for answers. Many have come close, but perhaps i'm a bit more daft today than usual.

    Looking at the Argyll jacket and vest in black barathea. i know this next paragraph might sound similar from past threads but it should change direction as you read on. For those short on time, please proceed to "Finally to the point".

    While the Rabble groans, allow me to explain; Looking for a jacket and vest combination which would be appropriate for attending funerals, weddings and other events where a simple tweed jacket and vest might not do and a PC would be too much (i said similar, but not exact). Enter the Argyll jacket and vest in black barathea. In as much as i understand; it could be worn during the day with a blue shirt and regimental tie, day sporran &c. as day wear (morning wear). And also from much reading on this forum, it can also be dressed up with a white shirt and black tie for weddings, funerals and other such day time events, or with a white shirt, black bow tie and a dress sporran for...well, i honestly don't expect to be invited to an event where this would be considered appropriate.

    Finally to the point:

    Now this is where it gets complicated for me; a gauntlet cuff with shiny silver buttons might be a bit much for a funeral where black/dark clothing is usually normal for the situation and in a part of Canada where conservative thinking is predominant (conservative thinking + Kilt = i get it, i'll work something out), so could/should black round buttons be substituted? What about a Braemar or Crail cut with black buttons? Would any of these changes distract from the overall utilitarianism of the jacket/vest combination? Will the five button vest prevent the wearing of said combination at certain functions? Is there another piece of kit (or pieces) available which would be more appropriate? Is this too much to expect from one jacket/vest? i recall when we would remove the buttons on our uniforms for cleaning and pressing. Were did that little bit of wisdom disappear to? (deep breath) Or am i just picking fly dirt out of pepper? Would like to remain as close to traditional as possible, while also remaining compassionate to my Canadian brothers of different ethnicities. And yes, i've already thought of a black suit.

    Thanks to all for reading and i look forward to your advise, criticisms and recommendations.

    Jacques
    This space for rent.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    24th September 04
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    Victoria, BC Canada 48 25' 47.31"N 123 20' 4.59" W
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    I am not a fan of the shiney buttons on the Argyle cuffed jacket.

    So i swapped the shiney buttons out for the same square button but in black. I think it looks quite smart.



    All of these buttons should be available through any jacket retailer.
    Last edited by Steve Ashton; 8th August 19 at 03:34 PM.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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  4. #3
    Join Date
    21st January 17
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    For me, a charcoal tweed jacket with horn buttons would be somber enough for funerals but smart enough for weddings. Accessories and choice of shirt colours, hose, sporran etc will allow you to bling the outfit up or down dependant upon the occasion.

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  6. #4
    Join Date
    6th July 07
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    i have been through numerous threads on the forum looking for answers. Many have come close, but perhaps i'm a bit more daft today than usual.

    Looking at the Argyll jacket and vest in black barathea. i know this next paragraph might sound similar from past threads but it should change direction as you read on. For those short on time, please proceed to "Finally to the point".

    While the Rabble groans, allow me to explain; Looking for a jacket and vest combination which would be appropriate for attending funerals, weddings and other events where a simple tweed jacket and vest might not do and a PC would be too much (i said similar, but not exact). Enter the Argyll jacket and vest in black barathea. In as much as i understand; it could be worn during the day with a blue shirt and regimental tie, day sporran &c. as day wear (morning wear). And also from much reading on this forum, it can also be dressed up with a white shirt and black tie for weddings, funerals and other such day time events, or with a white shirt, black bow tie and a dress sporran for...well, i honestly don't expect to be invited to an event where this would be considered appropriate.

    Finally to the point:

    Now this is where it gets complicated for me; a gauntlet cuff with shiny silver buttons might be a bit much for a funeral where black/dark clothing is usually normal for the situation and in a part of Canada where conservative thinking is predominant (conservative thinking + Kilt = i get it, i'll work something out), so could/should black round buttons be substituted? What about a Braemar or Crail cut with black buttons? Would any of these changes distract from the overall utilitarianism of the jacket/vest combination? Will the five button vest prevent the wearing of said combination at certain functions? Is there another piece of kit (or pieces) available which would be more appropriate? Is this too much to expect from one jacket/vest? i recall when we would remove the buttons on our uniforms for cleaning and pressing. Were did that little bit of wisdom disappear to? (deep breath) Or am i just picking fly dirt out of pepper? Would like to remain as close to traditional as possible, while also remaining compassionate to my Canadian brothers of different ethnicities. And yes, i've already thought of a black suit.

    Thanks to all for reading and i look forward to your advise, criticisms and recommendations.

    Jacques
    If you are wanting to wear kilt attire as traditionally as possible then you need to remember that kilt attire comes from completely different roots than Saxon attire and there are sometimes no exact attire equivalents between the two traditions. Many new to kilt wearing find this aspect difficult to grasp, particularly if the majority going to weddings/funerals in say North America understandably don’t understand the kilt ,never mind the differing attire cultures.

    If we bear that clearly in mind, the tweed braemar, crail, argyll and waistcoat is in fact the Saxon equivalent of a suit. It should not as a general rule be regarded as a sports coat equivalent, although some of the rather old battered and tattered ones are used as such on occasion. So tweed is happily worn with the kilt to weddings and funerals in the traditional Highlands of Scotland. I would suggest though that a loud tweed might be best avoided in these circumstances.

    For a formal wedding( morning suit equivalent) a black barathea silver buttoned braemar, crail, argyll(BBSBA) and five buttoned waistcoat and drop down tie .... not a black bow tie, nor a PC...... is worn. Some over here, usually old school, with a bespoke BBSBA and 5 buttoned waistcoat, rather than off the peg, do have interchangeable black/silver buttons on the military style system to tone things down a tad if needs be. Also please note that a BBSBA is a rare sight at a traditional Highland funeral.

    I would in passing, suggest strongly that kilt hire company advice and most internet pictures on what is supposedly “traditional kilt attire” for these sort of occasions are far from reliable and should be regarded with considerable caution as they more often than not, lead people astray.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 5th August 19 at 07:30 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  8. #5
    Join Date
    5th November 08
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    If the only Argyll you can find has shiny buttons, you can paint them with black nail polish. And, an Argyll need not have gauntlet cuffs. Finally, it can be a color other than black/navy blue. I have a tan corduroy Argyll & waistcoat that works perfectly well.
    --dbh

    When given a choice, most people will choose.

  9. #6
    Join Date
    31st May 06
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    If, as you suggest, you believe you will be attending weddings and funerals only, and not anything like a "formal" event, then I would agree with Jock Scot and urge you to consider a tweed Argyll jacket and waistcoat.

    Charcoal is what first comes to mind for us Americans, but do consider the traditional tweed colors like Lovat green or blue, dark blue, and brown. Depending on the color of the tartan you are wearing, it will make for a very handsome combination and an outfit that will also serve you from daytime through evening. The same jacket and waistcoat could serve for a highland festival or an evening wedding, and everything in between.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now, I do have occasion to attend several formal events every year -- more than half a dozen -- so I have a black Barathea silver-buttoned Argyll (BBSBA) jacket and waistcoat. Because I am a "man of substance" (MOS) the Argyll is a more attractive choice for me than the Prince Charlie would be. But I basically would not wear it in the daytime, as the black with the silver buttons shouts "formal."
    Descended from Patiences of Avoch | McColls of Glasgow
    Member, Clan Mackenzie Society of the Americas | Clan Donald USA

    "We have this hope, a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul." (Heb. 6:19)

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  11. #7
    Join Date
    16th July 19
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    Thank -you for all the constuctive replies. But new questions arise.

    With THCD in mind, of the three jacket patterns; Argyll, Braemar or Craill, which is the more widely accepted? Following Steve's advice i could change the buttons to something darker or more conservative, is this normally done with THCD?

    Also, i am awaiting an Argyll jacket and vest in olive tweed with dark subdued windowpane and horn buttons. i had purchased this jacket without consideration for any of the aforementioned events. With straight tie, brown (or black) brogues, brown (or black) sporran, green, blue or claret hose; what would be my event options?
    There is also the shirt and tie options but i think i have this part sorted.

    i will have two kilts, a MacLeod Harris modern and Macleod Harris Hunting Ancient.

    Thanks again.
    This space for rent.

  12. #8
    Join Date
    10th December 06
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    You might be overthinking this a tad. If you think the silver buttons too much go for a dark tweed instead something like this:


    One thing I will say about the Black Barathea Argyll with Silver Buttons is that in over a decade of steady kilt wear I did not need one as I had the set pictured above, I did however purchase one for my nephew's wedding because I thought the tweed too hot. Looking at the photo below I can not think that the buttons would be an issue for anyone.


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  14. #9
    Join Date
    10th December 06
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    With THCD in mind, of the three jacket patterns; Argyll, Braemar or Craill, which is the more widely accepted? Following Steve's advice i could change the buttons to something darker or more conservative, is this normally done with THCD?

    Also, i am awaiting an Argyll jacket and vest in olive tweed with dark subdued windowpane and horn buttons. i had purchased this jacket without consideration for any of the aforementioned events. With straight tie, brown (or black) brogues, brown (or black) sporran, green, blue or claret hose; what would be my event options?
    There is also the shirt and tie options but i think i have this part sorted.

    i will have two kilts, a MacLeod Harris modern and Macleod Harris Hunting Ancient.

    Thanks again.
    That sounds like it would be appropriate for any event up to Black Tie.

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  16. #10
    Join Date
    26th December 18
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    I have a charcoal tweed that I often wear for dressier (not formal) events:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I also have a lovat green tweed that I wouldn't hesitate to wear to a wedding:

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    Ultimately, I bought the charcoal first as I got a good deal and figured it would cover most everything I would need. Now I lean more toward the green (or one of my other jackets).

    Shane

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