[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by MacLowlife

Jock,

I thank you for your comment on buttons, but some of us nervous types are now worried about being OVER dressed. Here in the benighted American South, many men wear a navy blazer with metal buttons, with or without a tie. It may symbolize formality or it may simply be a place to put things ( more pockets). Lately, black blazers have turned up and also navy blazers with bone buttons (which look suspiciously like suit jackets wha has lost their trousers).

I am wondering about that metal buttoned Argyll, in navy or black wool- is it too dressy to wear to church or a garden party? Would it stand out as an Americanism?

Thanks
M'll

In my view, a blazer is not a blazer unless it has metal(brass) buttons.

As to your question and as I am not a church goer other than weddings and funerals I could not be relied upon giving an accurate answer! I will try though. I would never dream of going to many things in a morning suit, a formal wedding, Ascot, Buckingham Palace would be exceptions I suppose. The black barathea, silver buttoned argyll being the equivalent, would be completely out of place at a church service as it would be at a normal garden party.In my humble opinion, yes it would stand out as an Americanism, but as an American in the Highlands it is expected that you chaps will get it wong!LOL

[MacLowlife]

ouch, a direct hit

[guitarmatt]

I've been encouraged in this thread by the Scottish make-due-with-what-you-have attitude. I think contemporary culture, both British and American, encourages us to buy, buy, buy whenever possible. My tartan kilt is rather cheap, and I was feeling pretty self conscious about that for a while, but this thread has encouraged me to do the best with it I can. With that said, I'd like to look nice in my kilt without spending an arm and a leg. As an alternative to a new tweed jacket and waistcoat, do you think it would work to wear just a nice tweed waistcoat, giving the impression of having just ditched my jacket for comfort? I'm thinking of a collared waistcoat such as this one from Walker Slater in Edinburgh. I realize it's not exactly traditional Highland style, but perhaps it would be accepted as a sort of natural evolution? I'd probably be wearing variations of this outfit to events around Edinburgh in July: my wife's graduation from the vet school, the Royal Highland show, dinner with friends and family, etc. Thoughts?

[MacLowlife]

Thanks, Jock. And I know the thread is Highlanders discuss Highland Attire, but just as the Pound may fluctuate from time to time against the dollar, I wonder if the equivalency of jackets is entirely different.

Again, with no authority and an exposed target ( bracing even now) I would offer this brief chart for "American highland" wear:
Casual ( hiking, golf, what have ye) Kilt, sweater
Slightly dressy casual ( yeah, yeah- drinking, mostly) kilt and jacket, no tie
Business dress ( funerals, daytime weddings, Kirkin o the tartan, dinner out)
Kilt, jacket, tie No distinction between solid and tweed jackets, waistcoats may be worn
Black tie events ( balls, dances, weddings after 6) Kilt, jacket,waistcoat, bowtie no distinction between solid argyle and PC
White tie events (balls, affairs of state, affairs with movie stars) kilt, doublet, appropriate neckwear

This may be due to the general confusion of American Dress standards and is not meant to substitute for the "one kilt, ten looks" threads, but is just my personal observation. The non kilt wearers and the kilt wearers look the same above the waist through much of the spectrum. I do note in the pictures above that tweed predominates, but have seen pictures of the Duke of Rothesay in solid jackets. I guess if he is there, it is a Big Event...

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by MacLowlife

Thanks, Jock. And I know the thread is Highlanders discuss Highland Attire, but just as the Pound may fluctuate from time to time against the dollar, I wonder if the equivalency of jackets is entirely different.

Again, with no authority and an exposed target ( bracing even now) I would offer this brief chart for "American highland" wear:
Casual ( hiking, golf, what have ye) Kilt, sweater
Slightly dressy casual ( yeah, yeah- drinking, mostly) kilt and jacket, no tie
Business dress ( funerals, daytime weddings, Kirkin o the tartan, dinner out)
Kilt, jacket, tie No distinction between solid and tweed jackets, waistcoats may be worn
Black tie events ( balls, dances, weddings after 6) Kilt, jacket,waistcoat, bowtie no distinction between solid argyle and PC
White tie events (balls, affairs of state, affairs with movie stars) kilt, doublet, appropriate neckwear

This may be due to the general confusion of American Dress standards and is not meant to substitute for the "one kilt, ten looks" threads, but is just my personal observation. The non kilt wearers and the kilt wearers look the same above the waist through much of the spectrum. I do note in the pictures above that tweed predominates, but have seen pictures of the Duke of Rothesay in solid jackets. I guess if he is there, it is a Big Event...

The Duke is renowned for having an individual dress sense, and why not? However, I have not seen him wear silver buttons on his kilt day wear jackets of whatever cloth and I would not expect him to, unless he was attending a very formal day event in the Highlands. Most of the time, like the rest of us, he gets by with tweed(tweed like) of one sort or another. He does it well too.

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by guitarmatt

I've been encouraged in this thread by the Scottish make-due-with-what-you-have attitude. I think contemporary culture, both British and American, encourages us to buy, buy, buy whenever possible. My tartan kilt is rather cheap, and I was feeling pretty self conscious about that for a while, but this thread has encouraged me to do the best with it I can. With that said, I'd like to look nice in my kilt without spending an arm and a leg. As an alternative to a new tweed jacket and waistcoat, do you think it would work to wear just a nice tweed waistcoat, giving the impression of having just ditched my jacket for comfort? I'm thinking of a collared waistcoat such as this one from Walker Slater in Edinburgh. I realize it's not exactly traditional Highland style, but perhaps it would be accepted as a sort of natural evolution? I'd probably be wearing variations of this outfit to events around Edinburgh in July: my wife's graduation from the vet school, the Royal Highland show, dinner with friends and family, etc. Thoughts?

I understand that your wife is studying at the Royal(Dick)? What a wonderful place. If it were me and your budget is limited, not surprising with the young one(s) and all that, then the most versatile (don't forget our unreliable weather!) purchase would be a tweed day jacket and not a waistcoat. If you want to wear just a waist coat then one, that style will be fine. Might see you at the Royal Highland then?

[creagdhubh]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Well here goes, on this new venture of David's. I was wondering what else there was to say about the kilt, because it has all been said before, many times probably. So there I was sat by the fire, a glass of fine scotch to hand, in my old home, thinking to myself that nothing has changed in the few months that I have left to my newish, draft free,damp free, warm, dustless(almost!) new home. Then I started to note subtle changes! At first I did not like it, but then reality struck me smack between the eyes, things change, not always for the better, but it is inevitable that things move on and my son has every right to have his house as he wants it.

The thought then occurred to me that the same thing has happened to the kilt in my lifetime, some good and some not so good. Anyway next thing that happened was a crowd 30 or so of youngsters arrived, aged between 16 and perhaps 30 all dressed up in their finery ready for an evenings fun. What a sight to behold! Pretty ladies ,some of them dressed in not a lot, and the chaps, to a man dressed, in the kilt! Apparently this was the gathering place for this new idea of getting a coach(a smart bus) to go to a ball(not drinking and driving is taken very seriously over here).

Well, rest assured that the future of the kilt is safe in those youngsters hands. Yes there was the odd thing that made me wince, but two things struck me and pleased me. Not one, I repeat, NOT ONE kilt was being worn below the centre of the knee, most being worn at the top of the knee cap and NOT ONE pair of white hose to be seen. Those things alone struck me as interesting, where did they learn this?Their parents, family, hire company(rest assured that there were hired outfits there). In the course of the next half an hour or so I was able to find out more.

Part two to follow in a wee while.

Very interesting and intriguing story. You pose a very good question. I look forward to the second half.

[creagdhubh]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

The Duke is renowned for having an individual dress sense, and why not? However, I have not seen him wear silver buttons on his kilt day wear jackets of whatever cloth and I would not expect him to, unless he was attending a very formal day event in the Highlands. Most of the time, like the rest of us, he gets by with tweed(tweed like) of one sort or another. He does it well too.

I concur, HRH does it very well indeed!

[creagdhubh]

Originally Posted by OC Richard

1. The Stewards marching in Oban to the Argyllshire Gathering


This photo perfectly illustrates something I mentioned on the "evening sporrans- must they be fur?" thread, that it's common for the sporran to be of a formality matching the rest of the kit, and also for the sporran to be a notch more formal than the rest of the kit, but not common for the reverse.

So to my eye fur looks fine with Day Dress, but a plain leather sporran would look odd with Evening Dress.

8. Some ball-goers on Skye.


I love this quite traditional look of the long hair sporrans worn with civilian Evening Dress.

I do too, as I wear it that way myself! (Me, second from the left)

[mull]

So Jock, here is what I have taken away from this thread (and some others that seem related).

1. Most importantly, wear the kilt at the top of the knee.

2. A day jacket will do for every event I will be invited to attend.
Also, the saxon jacket I have cut down no longer looks right to me after seeing all of the pics in this thread and I will need to order a proper replacement.

3.Think understated, not flashy.

I am now disillusioned of the romantic past, however still find the pictures inspirational.

Thanks to all the shared here,
Joe