[Red Stag]

Belt loops on a kilt? Yay or nay or doesn't matter?

[CMcG]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

<snip>
So where did the knowledge on "how to wear the kilt " come from. Well they all had Scots connections so if advice was needed it was readily available.

Originally Posted by Redshank

<snip>
All in all we are all much the same, maybe we do it a bit more naturally, more at ease, and that’s understandable, after all Scotland is home to the kilt.

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

<snip>
...the "theory and practice" phenomenon that I keep banging on about.

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

<snip>
Sorry, its time to take off those romantic rose tinted spectacles, I am afraid.

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Alright then you non Scots kilt wearers, a few questions. What have you read or seen on this thread(please let us ignore romantic artistic dreams) that confound you? Are there answers that "us locals" have given that have surprised you? Are there really that many differences in the way us Scots view(wear) the kilt from the rest of the world? I have a few ideas of some of the answers that you might give, but go on surprise me!

IMHO, I find that there is a significant difference between a native Scot's wearing of the kilt and what is found elsewhere. Putting aside the hire company victims (who appear the same everywhere), I'm thinking particularly of those who own their own kilt, worn in a traditional manner.

I attribute it to what the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu calls the habitus: a durable set of naturalized dispositions that unconsciously structure a person's actions through practical logic. To put it in less academic terms, the spirit or feel of wearing the kilt is often different between Scotland (especially the Highlands) and everywhere else.

In wearing the kilt outside its native land, people generally seem to feel the need to "get it right" and, in so doing, can end up appearing more Scottish than Scots themselves. This occurs even amongst those of pure Scots blood who, carrying the passport of a different nationality, have been to the homeland on more than one occasion! To err on the side of romanticized brigadoonery is all too common, as is being guided by theory over practice...

Now, there are certainly diasporic Scots, mixed-blood Scots, and even non-Scots who are able to dress in "correct" Highland style. With some notable exceptions, I argue that there remains a different habitus in all other kilties than that of a native Highlander. I don't think this difference can be simply attributed to the origin and age of a man's kit (cobbled together from inheritance and purchase vs. newly assembled).

I think this difference is primarily from two things: context and culture. When one wears a kilt in places outside its native land, one is distinctly aware that one is doing something unusual and, in some places, subject to misinterpretation. This gives rise to a heightened experience of kilting as something personally meaningful but contextually ambivalent. The second thing is the way people embody culture in their mores; people wear jeans and tee-shirts all over the world but do it differently based on their locale. In a globalized world, even when people wear the same thing, they end up carrying themselves in a distinct way.

What I take from this thread is that I will never be a Highlander but, when I wear the kilt, I can try to embody their spirit. To me, this is much better than trying to copy their style because, at best, I will only be imitating with the result of a simulacra. I remain somewhat confounded by the natural kilted ease Jock Scot et al. exhibit but I shall endeavor to cultivate my own, within my local context, and with deference to tradition. Less fussing about minutiae and more kilted je ne sais quoi!

My two cents, FWIW, and with all due respect to the many members of the rabble who kilt better than I.

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by CMcG

IMHO, I find that there is a significant difference between a native Scot's wearing of the kilt and what is found elsewhere. Putting aside the hire company victims (who appear the same everywhere), I'm thinking particularly of those who own their own kilt, worn in a traditional manner.

I attribute it to what the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu calls the habitus: a durable set of naturalized dispositions that unconsciously structure a person's actions through practical logic. To put it in less academic terms, the spirit or feel of wearing the kilt is often different between Scotland (especially the Highlands) and everywhere else.

In wearing the kilt outside its native land, people generally seem to feel the need to "get it right" and, in so doing, can end up appearing more Scottish than Scots themselves. This occurs even amongst those of pure Scots blood who, carrying the passport of a different nationality, have been to the homeland on more than one occasion! To err on the side of romanticized brigadoonery is all too common, as is being guided by theory over practice...

Now, there are certainly diasporic Scots, mixed-blood Scots, and even non-Scots who are able to dress in "correct" Highland style. With some notable exceptions, I argue that there remains a different habitus in all other kilties than that of a native Highlander. I don't think this difference can be simply attributed to the origin and age of a man's kit (cobbled together from inheritance and purchase vs. newly assembled).

I think this difference is primarily from two things: context and culture. When one wears a kilt in places outside its native land, one is distinctly aware that one is doing something unusual and, in some places, subject to misinterpretation. This gives rise to a heightened experience of kilting as something personally meaningful but contextually ambivalent. The second thing is the way people embody culture in their mores; people wear jeans and tee-shirts all over the world but do it differently based on their locale. In a globalized world, even when people wear the same thing, they end up carrying themselves in a distinct way.

What I take from this thread is that I will never be a Highlander but, when I wear the kilt, I can try to embody their spirit. To me, this is much better than trying to copy their style because, at best, I will only be imitating with the result of a simulacra. I remain somewhat confounded by the natural kilted ease Jock Scot et al. exhibit but I shall endeavor to cultivate my own, within my local context, and with deference to tradition. Less fussing about minutiae and more kilted je ne sais quoi!

My two cents, FWI, and with all due respect to the many members of the rabble who kilt better than I.

If there were ever any doubt as to your status as a PhD candidate, you have certainly removed it here, my friend.

The key thing, I think is the je ne sais quoi you refer to. In another thread on contemporary highland dress, I called it a "casual insouciance" that a gentleman aims for. A way of dressing that is not too fussy, says you are comfortable and that you have done it before. As you stated, most of us who are not native highlanders over-think the whole thing. Relax and do what feels right and good is what Jock, and many others, have been telling us all along.

Regards,

Brian

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by guitarmatt

Keep an eye out for me at the show, I've got a tall red headed wife and a short blonde 2yo son, and I'll likely be wearing my Lyndsay kilt since it doesn't seem like I'll convince my wife we can shell out for a handmade in Huntly, which would be more appropriate to my Scottish ancestry.

When are you coming up to my neck of the woods, and do you fancy a drink in my little hometown? It’s not much but with 8 pubs it’s all we’ve got

Jordan

[auld argonian]

I won't lengthen the thread by quoting CMcG and Brian K...but nice insight.

It's sort of what I tell my kids (now both mostly grown); be sure that it looks like you're wearing the clothes and not like the clothes are wearing you.

Best

AA

[QMcK]

In Soviet Russia, clothes wear you!

[QMcK]

Thanks, wildrover, for that post. That's is what I have felt for a while and what has been annoying me for a while.

Trousers is not a four letter word (although pants is a five letter word (but that refers to underwear and woman's pants)) and can look good too - as good as a kilt. (An exception would probably be jeans). Bifurcated garments won't kill you, and if you find them as uncomfortable as some people on here say they do, you need to get a different cut.

As an aside, I don't think of jeans as trousers - they're jeans. I suppose that's a bit odd, though.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by QMcK

In Soviet Russia, clothes wear you!

Too right

Originally Posted by QMcK

As an aside, I don't think of jeans as trousers - they're jeans. I suppose that's a bit odd, though.

No im the same jeans are one thing trousers ar totaly different you wouldnt try to pass either off as the other.

Jordan

[guitarmatt]

Originally Posted by Jordan

When are you coming up to my neck of the woods, and do you fancy a drink in my little hometown? It’s not much but with 8 pubs it’s all we’ve got

Jordan

I may be up (generally) your way for the Forres games on 10 July. Near as I can tell, my Scottish ancestors emigrated from Forres around 1800. I'll let you know if we make plans.

[OC Richard]

Just a couple photos of native Highlanders, pipers, in the 1950's, showing their dress.

Competitors gathered at Oban, 1950. Note the rather plain Highland dress, though it looks like three of the pipers are wearing fur sporrans:



Archie MacPhedran, accomplished piper and pipemaker, born in Glasgow of Highland parents in the 1880's. Note the strong pattern of the jacket, the diced hose and bonnet. This mixing of multiple clashing plaid items is usually a no-no in ordinary fashion but very common in old Highland dress: