[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by MacBean

Yes, I had thought to start the exact same thread topic addressed to the same group, based on the same prior discussions about Rocky's new tweed kilt suit. After reading Jock's comments about the tweed suit, a copy of the recommended "All About Your Kilt" (an American book) arrived, with a photo on the back cover with several of Queen Victoria's Ghillies wearing tweed kilts, and the late William H. Johnstone wearing a kilt suit of his estate tweed (p. 24). I don't mean to contradict, but rather to point out that Americans, even those doing careful research, may turn up idiosyncratic examples of dress, and have difficulty discriminating between those and what is the norm today in the highlands. Take jacket epaulets for example. My own tweed jacket has epaulets, but it was made in the 50s. I don't think I would ask for them were I to buy a jacket today.

I think I would also like to hear a bit from native Scots (and particularly highlanders), about how they experience Americans playing fast and loose with their traditions, which may bear upon their points of view. I recently attended a rather festive four-day celebration in Inverness, dressed in a suit (with clan tie). I felt much more comfortable doing that than making a fool of myself in an inappropriately worn kilt.

I am not sure that I know the pictures you are talking about, but I rather suspect that they illustrate, perfectly, the "theory and practice" phenomenon that I keep banging on about. No one in their right mind goes stalking or ghillie-ing wearing the kilt! I can think of a two word reply from the stalkers that I know and used to employ if I suggested they wore a tweed kilt and the second word would be "OFF". It may have been romantic in Victorian times to have your staff clad in estate tweed kilts, but common sense soon prevailed and estate tweed plus 4's soon replaced the kilt. As it still does today for that line of work. In my nearly seventy years on this planet have I have only known one stalker wear a tweed kilt out stalking and with the greatest respect to him, he was mad; and I have known more than a few stalkers in my time.

We used to have many Americans come to shoot and fish here and on the whole they tried very hard to fit in. Sometimes it was very hard to persuade them that kilts were not worn on the hill,or by the river or even as every day wear. One insisted on wearing his very expensive brand new kilt out stalking. ----------he only did it once. I have had the same experience with a chap(not an American) going fishing, against local advice, wearing the kilt------he only did it the once! Forget those old romatic books, forget those old romantic pictures they prove very, very little.

If you think the kilt is a good idea up there, then think again!



----and again!


I claim no credit for the pictures.

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by MacLowlife

Thank you gentlemen, let's keep this ball rolling- and if anyone can manage to get Jock drunk enough to put that hemp kilt on him for a picture. let's just say the rewards will be substantial - and put up in corked bottles.

Well you can try!

[MacBean]

Lovely pictures Jock!

[Livingston]

I am enjoying this thread also. It is great to see how Scots feel about the kilt, how they wear it when they do and to understand the traditions. My preference is to follow those traditions as closely as I can with my limited knowledge and gaining more knowledge can only help. Thank you Jock, Redshank, Phil and in advance for those that have not answered but are planning to.

[davidlpope]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I really appreciate your observations.

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Perhaps it might be best and it would help me too, if some one asked a question and let's see where that takes us.

Fair enough. Perhaps some specifics?:

1. How many kilts does the "kilt-wearing Highlander" own?
2. What tartan/tartans does he choose to which events? Does he wear Dress tartans?
3. What color schemes/ fabric weight are most commonly seen?
4. Does he wear a kilt pin? What's it look like?
5. Is his kilt pleated to the line or the sett?
6. Does he wear a kilt belt with his kilt?
7. Does his kilt have belt/sporran loops? If so, does he use them?

Cordially,
David

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by davidlpope

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I really appreciate your observations.



Fair enough. Perhaps some specifics?:

1. How many kilts does the "kilt-wearing Highlander" own?
2. What tartan/tartans does he choose to which events? Does he wear Dress tartans?
3. What color schemes/ fabric weight are most commonly seen?
4. Does he wear a kilt pin? What's it look like?
5. Is his kilt pleated to the line or the sett?
6. Does he wear a kilt belt with his kilt?
7. Does his kilt have belt/sporran loops? If so, does he use them?

Cordially,
David

1. Until my kilts shrank I had four kilts(one my father's, and one my Grand Father's) in my wardrobe, all of the same tartan and a dress clan tartan. I now have one and my sons have the others along with jackets, sporrans etc.. They may have three or four all of the same tartan each.I suspect that most kiltwearers up here might have two kilts, one they bought and a family one. It never occurs to us to ask. Kilt wearing is not a common thing, even here.

2. I wear one tartan for all events and in another life I had a clan dress tartan that was only worn for formal evening events. I was probably unusual in having a dress tartan.

3. I6 oz or heavier would be the norm.I doubt that many would ask the weight and would assume it was heavyweight. Modern would be the normal(common) colour, ancient would be regarded as new fangled. Don't forget many kilts are over 50 years old.

4. Yes a kilt pin is usually worn, the "blanket pin "type is the norm. Mine is my Grand father's Gordon Highlanders silver one made in, I think, in 1913 by Hamilton and Inches.

5. Normally, unless you ask, the kilt maker will make the kilt pleated to the sett. I doubt that many would even know that there was a choice.

6. Oh yes a belt is worn without a waistcoat. Brass buckled during the day, silver for some evening wear.

7. I doubt that many have ever heard of such things.

[Darkislander]

I see kilted people every other week when processing photos. Probably mainly hired, socks up to the knees, kilt hanging over them and that counts for 90% of what I see. They make the mistake of wearing it where they normally would have their trousers sit.

[MacLowlife]

I LOVE this thread and the information, but I have to say, Darkislander, your post reminded me of a movie

I SEE KILTED PEOPLE...

[Tartan Hiker]

Excellent thread, folks.

If David or some of the contributors would like to suggest an alternate title for this thread, I or one of the other moderators would be happy to change it for you.

[Redshank]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example, we know how to and more to the point when to wear the kilt, to us the kilt is everything, but not everything, we wear tweed jackets, coloured hose, balmoral bonnets, shirt and tie, we are comfortable wearing it, we are not self concious, to us it's just a way of dressing, we even have hand me down ancestral kilts and accessories.

2) The New School - Traditionalist with a modern flare, Paul and Cessna fall into this category, they love to wear the kilt in a traditional manner but aren't afriad to try something different, modern multi coloured boots, contemporary kilts etc, they know how to wear the kilt, are comfortable wearing the kilt, keen to expand and improve their kilt collections and accessories.

3) The Hire School - Non kilt owning wearers, traditional in the hire shop sense of the word, white hose, ghillie brogues, ill fitting kilt, dress sporran for daywear, pc jacket, they will wear the kilt for special occassions, graduations, weddings etc, they may eventually go onto buy their own kilt and after a few years, then learn that they didn't actually know it all when their interest takes them into the real world of kilting.

4) The Desperate School - So desperate are these folk to own a kilt that they go to a food chain store and buy a complete kilt outfit for £1.99, they wear it to every possible event, the pub, the rugby, weddings, funerals, they put on weight or the kilt shrinks, they then take it to the nearest kilt makers for adjustment, are shocked to find the adjustment charge is more than they paid for the kilt, so they don't pay and just go back to the food store and buy a bigger £1.99 kilt, they think they look great, in reality they look like the sacks of potato's in the foodstore.

that's basically my take on it, you will however note the abscence of measurement, here in Scotland the 8 yard knife pleat is king, you wont find 4 and 5 yard box pleats, you wont find contemporary kilts, except in Edinburgh, and he is away on holiday most of the time or so it would appear from reports on here, but you will see far too often white hose, ghillie brogues and dress sporrans at highland games, daytime weddings ceilidh's, to re-iterate, there are those in the know, and those who haven't a clue except whatthe rental man tells them.