Need some advice...daywear (shirt, vest, jacket)

[wildrover]

I'm starting to put together something to wear for solo piping competition (vest & shirt, not the jacket), "casual" (ie jeans & sportcoat equivalent) daywear, and something I could get away with for less-formal eveningwear.

Dredging up a bunch of photos from the forum (and elsewhere)...I like the style of HRH's jacket and vest. Hell, I like the whole outfit.


The guys in civilian attire, I think that's a good look.


In color...


More color...


I'm pretty certain the style I like is an "Argyle". (for that matter, is it Argyle or Argyll? I'm not talking about a jacket with a checker pattern.) Also, I think the cuff style is "Crail"...as in, "regular cuff like you'd find on a sport coat or suit jacket". Simply put, I'd like a jacket as much like the sport coat I wear now, but cut for a kilt. No bling, no fancy Celtic-inspired massive silver buttons, no epaulettes, no huge cuffs, conservative notched lapel (with a buttonhole on the left, please!), single breasted, two buttons on the front, flap pockets, and tailored to fit!

I looked over the Scottish Tartans Museum...something like this could work. Is that one or two buttons on the front? I can't tell. Also, I don't suppose someone has a picture with the jacket buttoned as opposed to open? Matt, if you're reading this, has that jacket been tailored, or is it straight off the rack?


I also really like Kinloch-Anderson's "Day Jacket". This is about exactly what I had in mind...looks very much like the sport coat I have now, but cut for a kilt. I like the shorter lapel, I think, more than the longer one of the STM jacket...but maybe I could use some education here as to the importance of lapel length beyond visual impression (the shorter version looks more physically balanced, to my eye). Kyle, if you're reading this, you have (at least) one of these jackets, correct?


Got some questions, now. Does one button these jackets like any other two-button jacket, with only the top button? Is it pictured open for the sake of showing the vest & sporran, or is there some "kilt jacket" convention of leaving it unbuttoned all the time? In the pictures I posted above, only one guy appears to have his jacket buttoned, and there's another guy with a chain or something, but that's it.

The really rough question...my kilt is MacLaren Modern...a fairly dark tartan in blue and green, with a couple stripes of red and a black-bordered yellow stripe. The kilt is pleated to the yellow stripe.

I have no idea what colors would look good with this kilt. Charcoal would probably work just fine...and I'd prefer not black...but what do you guys think of these, with that tartan?





(I like this one, personally...but not sure how it'd look w/the kilt!)




Thoughts, anyone? I'd link some photos from the "Piper's Corner" album, but I'm outta image links for this post.

TIA,
Sean

[Livingston]

Sean, I've been one of the stewards for the piping competition at the Estes Park games for about 6 years. What I see most often would be a typical white dress shirt, black tie and black vest. Of course, some of the competitors will vary that with a blue shirt, maybe another color that works with their kilt, could change the color of the tie also. But basically a good dress shirt, tie and vest. Others wear their band uniforms and there is one competitor that wears a great kilt. Of course the footwear varies also. Band members being the execption but most have just a basic black highly polished shoe.

Greg

[Bugbear]

I don't know anything about the piping attire.

You might consider talking to The Wizard of BC through FK about the jacket. He was offering a kilt cut style of suit jacket, a time back, that was made in Scotland.

And it is my understanding, from the traditionalists, that, other than a couple of the doublets, kilt jackets are to be worne open or unbuttoned. This is the traditional attire forum...

[piperdbh]

You'd be alright with a converted into a kilt jacket. Several members here can do this for you. You start with a jacket you already have, or one you get at a thrift shop or somewhere, and then cut the tail off and raise the pockets. It's not a big job.

[xman]

... is it Argyle or Argyll?

Yes, it is Argyll or Argyle, the latter being a more contemporary or American spelling.

As for "going with" your kilt. As long as your ensemble matches and you're not clashing with the kilt I'd say you're good to go.

... and raise the pockets.

How is this done? Doesn't it leave the old slit visible?

[ForresterModern]

I will not directly address the appropriateness of dress for a solo piping competition, other than to say that the suggestion of a nice dress shirt and tie with a subtle colored or black vest would likely work well and look grand for such an event. Dressy but comfortable, respectful of both the event and the judges, and easy on the eye, without coming across as over the top (full pipers dress or a great kilt, for instance.


As far as you question about whether or not to button the jacket in a daywear setting, I think a quick review of the photos of the illustrious gentlement you have already posted gives a lot of information that can probably be followed as appropriate, from native scots who wear the kilt as it historically has been and should be. Reviewing your photos, about half the gentlemen visible have on vests with their jackets and half don't. Of the 20 or so that are readily visible, only two men have their jackets buttoned, and neither of those is wearing a vest. One might surmise from this that standard practice would be, in the daywear setting, to not wear one's jacket buttoned with a vest, and probably not with a jacket without a vest, although the latter is probably a point of more personal taste.

Being rather tall I personally always wear a vest with a daywear jacket, and almost never button the top button. My day wear jackets are a bit longer than most folks so even if i do button the top jacket button it does not look out of place relative to a standard sportcoat. Tow pics of me in daywear dress below----in the first I am not buttoned and the second buttoned, Though I must admit in the second it was more out of concern that holding my son would distort the drape of my jacket than a fashion choice.






jeff

[Jock Scot]

Not quite the style that you are after, I think, but another colour for you to consider particularly as my kilt colour is not dissimilar to yours. Generally speaking we wear our day jackets with the button(S) undone, with or without a waist coat.

[Bugbear]

Yes, it is Argyll or Argyle, the latter being a more contemporary or American spelling.

As for "going with" your kilt. As long as your ensemble matches and you're not clashing with the kilt I'd say you're good to go.


How is this done? Doesn't it leave the old slit visible?

I am not an expert,nor a tailor, so...

You might be starting with a jacket having patch pockets, and reduce them in depth by about half, then re attach them higher on the jacket.

If there are slit pockets, one could make patch pockets from the material taken off the bottom of the jacket. These cover the slits.

It is also possible to make longer-than-normal flaps to extend over the original pocket slits- right at the ends of the flaps.

Hope that makes sense; I am not good at making sense either...

[xman]

Hope that makes sense; I am not good at making sense either...

You make perfect sense to me. ty

[wildrover]

Eh, I didn't mean to muddy the waters by saying the word "piper"...all I meant was, I want to look nice, and I'd like to do it in a way that's classy as well as classic, but not ostentatious or cookie-cutter. Since I'm constrained by budget...I'd rather get one jacket and vest, and I'd prefer they weren't "band standard black" .

Like so:





(Three pipers--one may assume--in one photo, none wearing black vests or jackets, or white hose! Hallelujah! )





A picture provided by a helpful member on another thread. The colors in his kilt are similar to mine...the charcoal jacket looks really good. As a matter of fact, I think the whole kit looks really good.



Jock, thanks for the photo as well, I like the way the color of the vest and jacket work with the kilt. Cuffs and pockets are incidental, it's really the color combinations I need help with! Hopefully, the photos I linked above illustrate that while the standard black vest & jacket do look good, a little color looks great...that's what I'm after.

So...why unbuttoned, then? What do you do when the wind kicks up? If it's a more formal event, do you wear a different style that gets the button done up? The reason I ask is, I'm used to my jacket being buttoned, unless I'm sitting down...I'm not concerned about shifting my habit or perception, rather I'm just curious why a kilt jacket stays open, whereas a jacket with any other clothing is generally buttoned.

Where's OC Richard when you need him, with those photos from the old Highland outfitter catalogs?

-Sean