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  1. #1
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    Since the "what can we post here..."

    OP in Traditional Kilts and how to wear them is now expanding into the forum in general, I'll post here.

    DavidLPope posted:

    "Historical: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt from a bygone era—whether accurate, theatrical, or anachronistic.

    Traditional: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as Scottish Highland attire that has been passed down from generation to generation.

    Contemporary: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as everyday clothing and/or street wear that privileges personal interpretation."

    I like those Titles and Descriptors. They are specific enough for meaining without being dogmatically restrictive. Retaining "General Kilt Talk, Kilts in the Media, Newbie, DYI advice, DIY showroom" - with the advertisers and other quite specific bits (language, music, etc)- should just about do it for the AVERAGE forum contributor and lurker

    I can imagine all manner of kilt and accessories discussion within any of them that retain the context of the sub forum. In that particular context, a seperate Accessories forum seems incongruous to the style one means contextually. (eg: If the sporran I'm looking for advice on be my thought of style of historic, traditional or contemporary ....)

    My opinion, of course, is based on what I use here at Xmarks but simplicity has its benefits for a forum of Historical, Traditional, and Contemporary kilt wearers (vice combining disparate parts and accessories into an outfit)

    Just my opinion late in a work-filled day (happily distracted by XMarks)

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  3. #2
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    Regardless of what the name of a given sub-forum is, folks like myself who tend to use the "new posts" list rather than drilling into a particular forum, might often not realize what sub-forum a thread is located in, and may offer responses that are outside of the intended realm of the sub-forum in which the thread was posted. In other words, you can always start a thread about buckle brogues, and someone is always apt, at some point, to interject at some point with a response about scrunched socks.

    No matter which sub-forum a given thread is in, or what that sub-forum is called, some one will fail to note that, and will respond with a post not in line with what the OP was hoping to focus on. I think it might be more helpful of the mods to post a reminder when they see a response that drifts away from the focus of the thread, rather than move the thread to a different sub-forum. Or perhaps in the original post of a new thread, we clearly state that we would prefer responses stay about buckle brogues, and not deviate to scrunched socks.

    So decide where you want the work load to be... on the OP to clearly state the limits of the answers the OP feels are appropriate to the question posed? On the Moderators, to remind responders who drift from the intended scope of the OP? Or the responders themselves, to keep scrunched sock responses out of a thread about buckle brogues? Personally, I see degrees of failure in all three approaches.
    KEN CORMACK
    Clan Buchanan
    U.S. Coast Guard, Retired
    Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, USA

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  5. #3
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    I know it doesn't help in general, but I do the same thing Ken, touch the "What's New" button and go from there......

    Hawk
    Shawnee / Anishinabe and Clan Colquhoun

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  7. #4
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    I use what's new but I also check where I'm writing. Regardless, people should be able to ask a question in a particular context. That's the reason we have sub-forums. I like the categories that Taskr referred to in Post #1 but, more broadly, regardless of how we organize the site, I'd like the persecution of traditionally minded people and threads to stop. This should be an open space for all lovers of the kilt and conversations about how people in the land of the kilt view kilt fashion should not be verboten. It is up to the person asking the question, who's advice they wish to take but having sub-forums allows us to organize things better.

    Can we make everyone pay attention to top of their window and read the sub-forum before typing in a post? Probably not. But it has been an effective way up till now of focusing conversations without requiring the OP to state:

    "only people with this perspective answer".

    That would be an unreasonable request in the General Kilt Talk section IMHO.

    The new categories are inadequate. They speak to WHY someone wears a kilt but not HOW someone chooses to wear the kilt. If I am a Chinese guy who wants to make a non-conformist statement and wear a kilt daily, I still might want to wear it in a traditional fashion every day as part of that statement. The why is interesting, but the HOW is what we're here to learn.

    N
    Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
    High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
    “Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.

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  9. #5
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    Nathan,
    Spot on with the why v. How. I certainly have my own view point and for reasons of my current job, I will never wear a kilt daily. However, if I did, it would be in a traditional manner.

    So whereas I "could" see myself a daily kilt wearer, I also see myself as professional and prefer to put forth a manner of dress which has a traditional perspective. So, why is not a relevant point for me in that case. Instead, I seek advice regarding traditional styles/ways to dress my traditional hand-sewn kilt. I only have a couple kilts, so I'm looking for ways to vary what I would wear with traditional/conservative style.

    Why does this matter? Because I could refer to the OP subsections as appropriate. If I decided to attempt a historically inspired outfit, at least I'd know where to look for ALL things related to that outfit.

  10. #6
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    Many folks " click " on the "What's New " tab , I myself do it quite often .

    When doing so , I scroll thru the threads and often fail to notice in which sub-forum they were posted .

    Once a person clicks on a thread , they tend to immediately scroll down past the top line ( where the sub-forum appears ) and the advertisers to Post # 1 .

    The headline that tells you the sub-forum is the " top line " and often goes unnoticed due to it's location on the page .

    Perhaps the sub-forum should be " boldly " identified somewhere right above Post # 1 . This would immediately remind / inform the reader about the category of the thread . Thus the intent of the OP .

    If one could immediately and boldly " see " the sub-forum listed as they begin to read the first post of any thread it would probably change the perspective of the reader and the responses . Thus perhaps reduce the " misunderstandings " in some of the replies .

    Just my own guess here , but I think many people don't realize the " sub-forum " as they read the first post of a thread and at some point decide to reply . I know I'm certainly guilty of that at times .

    Just food for thought .

    Cheers , Mike
    Last edited by MacGumerait; 27th November 14 at 02:49 AM.
    Mike Montgomery
    Clan Montgomery Society , International

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  12. #7
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    That sub-forum thing you are talking about is called the Bread Crumb Trail. It tells you, at any time, where you are within the forum and allows you to, with a click, move anywhere up or down that bread crumb trail.

    I have just asked Rob if the bread crumb trail can be moved. If so, I have asked him to move it to display just under the "Reply to thread" blue button.

    There is also one additional feature of the software which we have never used. It is called "Thread Prefixes".
    For example if a member wanted to post within the "The Kilt as Everyday or Street Wear" sub-section- but the member is a traditionalist, and intends the thread to be about a traditional outfit or how a traditionalist would wear a traditional street wear outfit - then they could choose to have the thread prefix display "This thread is from a Traditional Perspective".

    Thread prefixes show up very clearly in the title of the thread. If you hit the "New Posts" button you could instantly see which thread are from a traditional perspective regardless of where that thread is within the forum.

    For an example of this please look at my "Test" post in this section. Click on "New Posts" and you should see the prefix very plainly.
    Last edited by Steve Ashton; 27th November 14 at 02:13 AM.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

  13. #8
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    Steve , I see what you have done but that's not exactly what I'm referring to , it's part the way there .

    What I was referring to was a way to understand which category you are in ... once you open a thread and begin to read post # 1 .

    The category or " sub-forum " should appear boldly right above " post # 1 " so that the reader is reminded and understands where they are ... before they respond .

    It doesn't matter which avenue they choose to read the thread ( what's new etc) ... but rather .... once they open " any thread " there should be a bold identifier somewhere right above Post # 1 to remind them of what category they are looking at before they respond .

    Does this help ? I do understand the " bread crumb trail " but it's not relevant to what I'm trying to explain .

    Cheers , Mike
    Last edited by MacGumerait; 27th November 14 at 04:17 AM.
    Mike Montgomery
    Clan Montgomery Society , International

  14. #9
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    I am finding the discussion fascinating (in a good way). My eye keeps going back to "X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers." What a wonderfully broad, inviting, uncompromised, non-judemental tag line" I've realized it is why I prefer the "Historic", "Traditional" and "Contemporary" thread headings. To me they are also wonderfully broad, inviting, uncompromised, non-judemental decriptors of kilt wearers. The descriptors "fit" the title well (running a thesaurus over and over). I could talk jacket, socks, sporrans or other bits comfortably within any of them. Of course, none are exclusive. How could they be, nor should we expect them to be. I, for example, currently consider myself to be contemporary with a traditional bent - but I have not formed an interest in wearing historical.


    We might have to return to where this discussion began. Although the question was validly phrased, the reflection could be "why are threads moved?" (if that is incorrect, Nathan, I offer that it is only my seeking to understand). Approaching the topic from that perspective gives us other options than thread headings, such as:

    - clarity in the Thread descriptor (again, I'll say that I like what DavidLPope posted and find a few of the "Kilt Information Guides" titles to be interchangable)

    - moderator notification to OP that a thread should move (allowing for clarification of the theme of the OP before action. Which might be a Mod reminder in the thread, an OP reminder, or agreement it move)

    - technical modifications that assist (without cluttering up the actrual conversation)

    I think I've mentioned before that I don't envy the postion Steve, the Mods and the tech staff have in maintaining an open and collegiate space for the global community of kilt wearers. Finding something to capture the fullness of the diversity is a noble but improbable goal. Simplicity, in my humble opinion, is the guiding principle. The kilt is a simple and elegant garment; the mark of a confident and down-to-earth man. I would anticipate, then, the forum framework be nothing less and nothing more. And the brief discussion between Mod and OP in sorting out if that is where that thread should be reflect those very same gentlemen they are.

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  16. #10
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    "- moderator notification to OP that a thread should move (allowing for clarification of the theme of the OP before action. Which might be a Mod reminder in the thread, an OP reminder, or agreement it move)"

    You are absolutely correct. That was all my fault.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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