[Sir William]

I'm going to be taking a cruise in January and we'll be having both a formal and semi-formal night for dinner. I decided that the occasion calls for the kilt to be worn.

Space being an issue, I thought that instead of taking both a PC (for the formal) and a day-jacket (for the semi-formal), a black Argyll would suit for both, just dressing up a bit more for the formal, and down a bit for the semi-formal.

I was wondering if black cloth buttons would be appropriate on an Argyll to tone it down a bit? Or would it make it too somber?

And, if black buttons were appropriate, where can I get them?

BTW, the cruise website isn't terribly helpful on what exactly semi-formal means. I've heard it can be a suit or tux, or much more informal such as a dress shirt without a tie and jacket. I opted to go the more dressy route.

[CMcG]

Personally, I don't think cloth buttons would work very well on an Argyll jacket. They would look superfluous rather than decorative.

There are, however, antique finish or even black buttons available in the usual metal diamond shape. Or you could just put a coat of black nail polish them, which is what I did.

Formal vs. semi-formal can apparently mean different things in different places, so take this with a grain of salt. I'd pair your black Argyll with a black bow-tie, white pleated-front shirt, and shiny waistplate belt for formal. For semi I'd wear a self-coloured shirt and tie, with a 5 button vest matching the jacket.

[Cygnus]

Hmm...

I'd go to the cruise line's website and see if they don't have pictures of these events; as CMcG aptly pointed out, semi-formal can mean a number of different things. 40 years ago, it would be a tuxedo event (with tailcoats being overkill). In this modern age of relaxed dress, however, you'll probably see a number of different interpretations.

I assume that the Argyll jacket in question is black barathea. If this is the case (and contrary to what most vendors or rental places will tell you), it probably isn't suitable for daywear. Superfine wools and barathea should really be reserved for evening wear or formal morning dress. However, depending on your search results, you might find a dark tweed jacket and four in hand tie being quite suitable for the evening event.

If not, you'll either have to pack two jackets or hope that nobody on the ship is too familiar with the standards of highland dress!

[Sir William]

Originally Posted by CMcG

I'd pair your black Argyll with a black bow-tie, white ruffle shirt, and shiny waistplate belt for formal. For semi I'd wear a self-coloured shirt and tie, with a 5 button vest matching the jacket.

I like that suggestion. I'll probably go with that or something very similar.

[Sir William]

Originally Posted by Cygnus

I'd go to the cruise line's website and see if they don't have pictures of these events; as CMcG aptly pointed out, semi-formal can mean a number of different things. 40 years ago, it would be a tuxedo event (with tailcoats being overkill). In this modern age of relaxed dress, however, you'll probably see a number of different interpretations.

Way ahead of you. I've seen everything from an Aloha shirt, a polo shirt, dress shirts with with or without a tie and with or without a jacket, military full dress and mess dress, and tuxedos.

Some previous passengers who wore their kilts wore PC or Argyll for the formal, and a ghillie shirt for the semi-formal. I'm OK with the Argyll for the formal, but NOT a ghillie shirt for the semi-formal - I'd rather wear the Argyll again, but in a different configuration such as with a vest and long tie.

Some previous passengers said they like to see men wear kilts on the cruises - and being an XMTS that works totally for me!

I don't plan to wear day-wear on the cruise as I'll either be on the beach or at the pool. I could wear go casual if the need arises, but I won't need a tweed jacket while ashore and certainly not in the Caribbean!.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Since both the formal and semi-formal events are dinners, I don't think you have to worry about whether or not the Argyll jacket will be correct for both events-- it will be. Black cloth covered buttons in place of the metal buttons are a matter of personal taste-- both are correct, and in a semi-formal atmosphere the more subdued look of the black cloth covered buttons may actually be preferable. What I would suggest is that you replace the buttons on your Argyll jacket with cloth covered buttons if you wish to do so. I'd also replace the buttons on the 3 button and 5 button waistcoats-- either self covered or simple round pearl buttons on the formal 3 button waistcoat, and buttons to match the jacket on the semi-formal 5 button waistcoat.

Having lectured on Cunard, Radisson, and Crystal ships I can tell you that you'll be fine in your Argyll-- both in a formal and informal setting.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

There is a hierarchy in men's dress as it applies to shirts:

Formal (Black Tie): white, French cuffed, with either a smooth or pleated front.

Semi-formal (equivalent to a dark suit worn after 6PM): white, French cuffed, with a smooth front.

Casual (weekend wear, usually with a sport coat or blazer): white, colours, or stripes, smooth front, button or French cuffs.

Ruffle front shirts are usually worn by waiters, or by the members of a cheesy Latin Conga Band... think Desi Arnez singing "Babaloo" and you'll get the picture. They are best avoided by gentlemen

[CMcG]

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

<snip>

Ruffle front shirts are usually worn by waiters, or by the members of a cheesy Latin Conga Band... think Desi Arnez singing "Babaloo" any you'll get the picture. They are best avoided by gentlemen

I think this comment is directed toward my post. I didn't mean poofy ruffles and have edited it to read "pleated-front."

[Sir William]

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

There is a hierarchy in men's dress as it applies to shirts:

Formal (Black Tie): white, French cuffed, with either a smooth or pleated front.

Semi-formal (equivalent to a dark suit worn after 6PM): white, French cuffed, with a smooth front.

I've both white shirts with and without pleated fronts and was already thinking of using them as you indicated.

I wasn't too sure about the black cloth buttons with an Argyll, which is why I asked. I like the idea of just wearing a less formal shirt and a long tie (vice a bow tie) for the semi-formal attire.

[BobsYourUncle]

Originally Posted by Cygnus

I assume that the Argyll jacket in question is black barathea. If this is the case (and contrary to what most vendors or rental places will tell you), it probably isn't suitable for daywear. Superfine wools and barathea should really be reserved for evening wear or formal morning dress.

I couldn't disagree more. "Superfine wools and barathea" are completely appropriate for day wear, especially in warmer climates and temperatures. Cut and color are what principally distinguish day wear from evening wear, and black is the new black--because you can wear it morning, noon or night and stilll be perfectly appropriate. However, that pastel paisley in superfine wool will not be appropriate in a formal evening setting, unless, egads, it is specifically called for in the invitation...