X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website The Scottish Trading Company
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    7,545
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Clan crest bonnet badges

    This topic has come up on another thread and I thought it might deserve its own.

    I'm admittedly a creature of the period I began wearing Highland Dress- the 1970s- and at that time it seemed clear that Clan Crest bonnet badges came in two sizes, one intended for the Glengarry, one for the Balmoral.

    Here, made in the 1980s by Carrick Jewellery Scotland



    The larger Glengarry badge is 2 inches or 52mm in diameter, the smaller Balmoral badge is 1 5/8 inches or 41mm in diameter.

    Now I say "intended" but in fact I never talked to anybody at Carrick or any other Scottish jewellery firm about it, it's merely my inference from seeing the standard practice at that time.

    In the 1980s I worked at a Highland Outfitter who was a Carrick stockist and we carried, as I recall, at least four sizes of Clan Crest badges

    1) the 52mm worn on Glengarries
    2) the 41mm worn on Balmorals
    3) a smaller one, too small for a bonnet, evidently for feminine and/or "Saxon" wear
    4) a tiny one used as a lapel or tie pin.

    Here are the first three sizes listed on their original Carrick display cards (the cards are all the same size)







    Carrick also had pendants (two styles) and car badges and these distinctive kilt pins



    Here are the two sizes of bonnet badges worn on my bonnets (both Mackies from the 1980s)



    It just makes sense, artistic sense, for the size of things to correspond to their format. So the size of a portrait that you use on a freeway sign is going to be different than the size of a portrait that you use on a coin. (Though I'm surprised how often the people who design things don't seem to be aware of this principle.)

    So the bigger badge simply fits the format of the Glengarry best. That size has been around at least since the mid-19th century when a craze for Clan Crest badges was at its height



    and continues to be worn



    And here are the smaller Balmoral badges being worn (one fellow does have a larger one)



    There have always been people who wear the small badge on the Glengarry and visa versa, probably a matter of "this is the badge I have and it's going on my new hat".

    But to my eye a small badge looks a bit lost at sea on a Glengarry and a big badge looks ungainly on a Balmoral.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 13th January 19 at 03:39 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  2. The Following 5 Users say 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    21st March 17
    Location
    San Diego, USA
    Posts
    572
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The thing is, I’ve never seen different sizes listed on any websites. Is it one size fits all nowadays?

    Is the smaller badge the standard? My son’s bonnet badge measures ~1.5”. I guess is saves stocking two sizes and most non-pipers seem to wear balmorals anyway.
    Last edited by FossilHunter; 13th January 19 at 11:14 AM.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    16th September 10
    Posts
    1,169
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Your stock of photos never ceases to amaze me. Do you have any info accompanying the one of the gent in
    shepherd's check? Wonderful to see that being worn so. And I really like his jacket.
    Last edited by tripleblessed; 13th January 19 at 12:42 PM.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    5th August 14
    Location
    Oxford, Mississippi
    Posts
    4,400
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    Your stock of photos never ceases to amaze me. Do you have any info accompanying the one of the gent in
    shepherd's check? Wonderful to see that being worn so. And I really like his jacket.
    I expect Tobus will comment on his wonderful spats. This guy looks comfortable displaying his swagger.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    26th December 18
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I hadn't thought of this but it makes perfect sense as in my days for the Canadian Forces, there were two sizes of cap brass available; one for the forage cap (about 2" across) and one for the wedge/beret (about 1.5" across). Although we pretty much never wore the forage cap, there would often be someone who would have a larger brass on their wedge/beret and is always look out of place.

    My wife has recently been wanting a Macleod clan pin for a MacLeod of Harris scarf she has; knowing there may be different sizes will be useful in my search - thanks!

    Shane

  7. #6
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    7,545
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    Your stock of photos never ceases to amaze me. Do you have any info accompanying the one of the gent in
    shepherd's check? Wonderful to see that being worn so. And I really like his jacket.
    Yes that photo is cool in so many ways, so typical of the Highland Dress of the third quarter of the 19th century, the same dress captured in colour in The Highlanders Of Scotland.


    His dress features

    -Glengarry worn with civilian dress
    -ordinary jacket worn with Highland Dress
    -dark waistcoat with light jacket
    -check kilt with contrasting selvedge
    -brown-grey long hair sporran worn with Day Dress
    -selfcoloured hose with contrasting cuffs (we can guess that the hose are taupe, with red cuffs)
    -civilian spats as would be worn with trousers at that time

    The only info I have is the photographer: W. Young, Birnam, Dunkeld (now often called Dunkeld & Birnam).
    Last edited by OC Richard; 16th January 19 at 08:07 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  8. #7
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    7,545
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilHunter View Post
    Iíve never seen different sizes listed on any websites. Is it one size fits all nowadays?
    Perhaps.

    Gaelic Themes, whose main thing is selling to the Pipe Band world, has AFAIK just one size of badge, a bit smaller than the Carrick Glengarry-sized badge, even though the Gaelic Themes badges are nearly always worn on Glengarries. (Balmorals have been declasse for Pipe Bands since the 1970s.)
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  9. #8
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,016
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Yes that photo is cool in so many ways, so typical of the Highland Dress of the third quarter of the 19th century, the same dress captured in colour in The Highlanders Of Scotland.


    His dress features

    -Glengarry worn with civilian dress
    -ordinary jacket worn with Highland Dress
    -dark waistcoat with light jacket
    -check kilt with contrasting selvedge
    -brown-grey long hair sporran worn with Day Dress
    -selfcoloured hose with contrasting cuffs (we can guess that the hose are taupe, with red cuffs)
    -civilian spats as would be worn with trousers at that time

    The only info I have is the photographer: W. Young, Birnam, Dunkeld (now often called Dunkeld & Birnam).
    I'm curious how you arrived at a guess of taupe hose with red cuffs. To me, the cuffs look much darker (the same shade as his shoes and Glengarry). I would guess that the cuffs are a dark blue to black, just based on monochrome shading. I suppose a deep crimson or burgundy could be possible, too, but probably not the lighter red that was typically worn at that time ... or at least not the reds depicted by MacLeay. You've got me curious now, though.

    Curiously, MacLeay did not depict any Highlanders wearing civilian spats, even though we know they were worn with Highland dress around this time. I wonder why? Did those sitting for his portraits just choose not to wear them and opted instead for their finery? Or were spats a trend for those of a more common station? Or something else? At any rate, this fellow's spats are interesting for the button choice and placement. Buttoning them on the side, even with the aid of a button hook, is a bit of a challenge. I can see how top buttons would be easier, but they sure stick out like a sore thumb, especially those big honkin' white ones he's got.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    1st December 06
    Location
    Conyers, Georgia
    Posts
    4,270
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just a comment on the two sizes of cap badge:

    I have used the larger size on a balmoral, and I find that its weight tends to pull the w. hole thing down, making it look a bit saggy. The size not only looks better--to my eye--but solves the sagging problems and keeps the bonnet on proper shape.

    At least, that's been my observation.
    Last edited by thescot; 16th January 19 at 12:16 PM.
    Jim Killman
    Philosopher, Teacher of English and Math, Soldier of Fortune, Bon Vivant, Heart Transplant Recipient, Knight of St. Andrew (among other knighthoods)
    Freedom is not free, but the US Marine Corps will pay most of your share.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0