Glengarry with dicing... thoughts?

[OC Richard]

I think it looks sharp too and you can wear it with pride as acknowledging you fealty to the British Crown. You do know that is why the dicing is there don't you?

My understanding is that the dicing is an elaboration or decorative descendant of the size-adjustment ribbon which was laced around the rim of the old bonnet. Don't know if there's any evidence of that, or if it's just a story.

More likely the dicing is just another example of the Highlander's love of pattern, which adorned nearly every inch of the old traditional Highland costume, with its tartan jacket, kilt or trews, patterned hose, patterns worked into leather and engraved onto metal, probably yet another example of the nearly worldwide ancient horror vacui.

If dicing indicates fealty to the Crown, why were the bonnets of The Black Watch (and the other Highland regiments fighting for the Crown) plain as late as the 1740s? Why was King George IV painted wearing a plain bonnet in the 1820s? Why did The Royal Company of Archers wear plain bonnets in the 1820s? When the Glengarry was adopted into The Cameron Highlanders, for their pipers, in the 1840s, and later for the entire regiment, it was plain? Why The Black Watch also wore plain Glengarries, as long as they wore them?

[OC Richard]

I have a vintage glengarry of the typical style in dark blue with the usual red and white dicing. What are the rabble's thoughts on this style of glengarry? Is it too Military/Pipe Band looking with the dicing or is it acceptable for civvie wear?

It's a common misconception that the Glengarry is inherently a military style. It was worn by civilians for decades until it was brought into the army in the 1840s as part of a new (to the army) civilian-based costume for the pipers of The Cameron Highlanders. Other elements of this civilian piper's costume now thought of as being "military" were the doublet with Inverness skirts and wide black leather dirk belt and crossbelt with silver fitments.

Thing is, pipers in some regiments wore the same uniform as the other soldiers (at that time, in the Highland regiments, a feather bonnet and red coatee) while in some regiments the pipers were dressed in elaborate civilian livery including such things as doublets (sometimes tartan) and various bonnets not then worn in the army.

Anyhow the original army Glengarries, worn by pipers, were plain, and eventually all Highland regimental pipers were put into plain Glens. Later Glens spread to the other soldiers, remaining plain throughout some regiments (Cameron Highlanders and Black Watch) but with dicing (borrowed from the feather bonnet) added in other regiments, but only for non-pipers (Gordons, Argylls, Seaforths).

Glengarries were extremely popular amongst civilians throughout the 2nd half of the 19th century, but these were nearly always plain. In The Highlanders Of Scotland half of the men are wearing Glengarries, all of them plain; the other half are wearing Balmorals, all but three plain (in other words, of 50 visible hats all but three are plain).

To my eye a fully diced dark blue Glengarry with red tourie has a slightly costume-like feel... I don't know why, probably it's seeing all the vintage photos of men wearing plain Glens, and seeing overdressed Americans at our local Games wearing the diced ones.

A typical civilian Highland costume of the 1860s/1870s

[ASinclair]

I think with Highland uniforms, the Glengarry bonnet is the way to go. But for non-uniform Highland wear, I agree with Kyle, Tobus, and McMurdo that the Balmoral bonnet is the ticket. Also, Isaac, as Tobus said, "You wear it well."

[David]

A typical civilian Highland costume of the 1860s/1870s

This is a bit "off topic" as I'm commenting on the jacket. It strikes me how long the jacket is by todays standards, we now tend to aim for a jacket hem that is no longer than the length of the sleeve at most. I actually quite like this jacket. I wonder if it is cut to hang open around the sporran like it does?

[creagdhubh]

It's a common misconception that the Glengarry is inherently a military style. It was worn by civilians for decades until it was brought into the army in the 1840s as part of a new (to the army) civilian-based costume for the pipers of The Cameron Highlanders. Other elements of this civilian piper's costume now thought of as being "military" were the doublet with Inverness skirts and wide black leather dirk belt and crossbelt with silver fitments.

Thing is, pipers in some regiments wore the same uniform as the other soldiers (at that time, in the Highland regiments, a feather bonnet and red coatee) while in some regiments the pipers were dressed in elaborate civilian livery including such things as doublets (sometimes tartan) and various bonnets not then worn in the army.

Anyhow the original army Glengarries, worn by pipers, were plain, and eventually all Highland regimental pipers were put into plain Glens. Later Glens spread to the other soldiers, remaining plain throughout some regiments (Cameron Highlanders and Black Watch) but with dicing (borrowed from the feather bonnet) added in other regiments, but only for non-pipers (Gordons, Argylls, Seaforths).

Glengarries were extremely popular amongst civilians throughout the 2nd half of the 19th century, but these were nearly always plain. In The Highlanders Of Scotland half of the men are wearing Glengarries, all of them plain; the other half are wearing Balmorals, all but three plain (in other words, of 50 visible hats all but three are plain).

To my eye a fully diced dark blue Glengarry with red tourie has a slightly costume-like feel... I don't know why, probably it's seeing all the vintage photos of men wearing plain Glens, and seeing overdressed Americans at our local Games wearing the diced ones.

A typical civilian Highland costume of the 1860s/1870s

Correct information Richard, of which I was well aware; however, I still maintain my opinion that the Glengarry bonnet still looks very military oriented. I'm sure this is due to seeing so many pipe bands, solo pipers, drummers, and many of the Scottish Highland Regiments opting to wear the Glengarry bonnet. Also referencing Kenneth MacLeay's The Highlanders of Scotland, just about every water colour plate features a Highlander (with some plates having more than just one man) wearing the Glengarry style bonnet. Obviously, this was because the Glengarry was at the pinnacle of Highland fashion during the 19th century, and especially during the Victorian Era.

[creagdhubh]

My understanding is that the dicing is an elaboration or decorative descendant of the size-adjustment ribbon which was laced around the rim of the old bonnet. Don't know if there's any evidence of that, or if it's just a story.

More likely the dicing is just another example of the Highlander's love of pattern, which adorned nearly every inch of the old traditional Highland costume, with its tartan jacket, kilt or trews, patterned hose, patterns worked into leather and engraved onto metal, probably yet another example of the nearly worldwide ancient horror vacui.

If dicing indicates fealty to the Crown, why were the bonnets of The Black Watch (and the other Highland regiments fighting for the Crown) plain as late as the 1740s? Why was King George IV painted wearing a plain bonnet in the 1820s? Why did The Royal Company of Archers wear plain bonnets in the 1820s? When the Glengarry was adopted into The Cameron Highlanders, for their pipers, in the 1840s, and later for the entire regiment, it was plain? Why The Black Watch also wore plain Glengarries, as long as they wore them?

Agreed, Richard. I have often heard that the decorative, diced pattern on Highland bonnets may also reference various Armorial Bearings of the Clan Stewart with its heraldic "dicing." In any rate, I think a diced Balmoral bonnet in fawn, Lovat blue, or Lovat green looks quite smart with Highland day attire.

[sailortats]

slight hijack, Is there a place where you can buy different colors of dicing material? I would like to get some of the blue/white dicing shown above.

[frank_a]

I always thought red & white dicing meant the wearer was Protestant?

Frank

[Father Bill]

Nah; it means the wearer bought a bonnet with dicing.

[Tobus]

I always thought red & white dicing meant the wearer was Protestant?

Frank

LOL, where did you hear that? Sometimes I'm amazed by the rumours that sprout up over things like this.