[piperdbh]

Suppose for a moment that a certain member of a kilt forum wanted to knit himself some lace make up into a jabot and cuffs. How would said member secure the completed jabot around his neck so that it wouldn't come loose and fall off in the soup bowl? Do the long ends of the base fabric tie, or do they just cross over each other and friction holds them in place?
Many thanks for your help. All this is hypothetical, of course.

[sydnie7]

Lady Chrystel's seem to have long "legs" that go around the neck twice and tie under the front of the jabot (from photos posted by Robert).

FlamingoKilt models have a lace-covered fabric neckband that fastens in the rear with Velcro (allowing for some amount of closet shrinkage). That method is common to other commercially available jabots I've seen in the U.S. Be sure to put the prickly side of the Velcro facing away from the skin!

[thescot]

Originally Posted by sydnie7

. . . FlamingoKilt models have a lace-covered fabric neckband that fastens in the rear with Velcro (allowing for some amount of closet shrinkage). That method is common to other commercially available jabots I've seen in the U.S. Be sure to put the prickly side of the Velcro facing away from the skin!

Mine fastens in this manner, and I wear it with a banded collar white shirt, i.e., no collar. But the jabot also has a button hole under the front lace that fastens to the shirt front (if available) or a button carefully sewn to the front of the doublet since a jabot really only looks good when worn with a closed front doublet and not a white shirt. (OK, let the slings and arrows of outrageous slander fall.)

I have never had my jabot come loose.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by piperdbh

Suppose for a moment that a certain member of a kilt forum wanted to knit himself some lace make up into a jabot and cuffs. How would said member secure the completed jabot around his neck so that it wouldn't come loose and fall off in the soup bowl? Do the long ends of the base fabric tie, or do they just cross over each other and friction holds them in place?
Many hanks for your help. All this is hypothetical, of course.

Firstly you will find lace for sale on the internet - much better option than trying to make it yourself. Go for a rectangular length piece about the size of a computer keyboard which is sewn to a backing piece in a zig-zag to give a triangular shape. On the backing piece have straps which you can then fasten (velcro, poppers, hooks & eyes, tie in a bow) around your neck.

[Ancienne Alliance]

Originally Posted by sydnie7

Lady Chrystel's seem to have long "legs" that go around the neck twice and tie under the front of the jabot (from photos posted by Robert).

Yes , I designed this one and Lady Chrystel made it for me. They are now quite popular.
I didn't want to use Velcro or metallic clasps and devices.
I did want a unique, original tie on, fits all type of jabot.
This is what I came up with:

Place the jabot in front of shirt:




One way around the neck:




Back to the front:




Tie in a natural double knot:





The tied part and shirt collar can be concealed under the jabot for a more standard look.
I personally prefer to wear it this way... with the knot displayed. The collar tips can be showing or not. They are custom made to any length according to ones preference.






Best,

Robert

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Originally Posted by Phil

Firstly you will find lace for sale on the internet - much better option than trying to make it yourself.

Phil,

I think you are missing the point. This is rather like saying, "Gee, you know you can buy kilt hose ready made at almost any Highland dress retail store. Why bother knitting your own? It's much easier to buy a pair." Or, "Why would anyone need a book called The Art of Kiltmaking? Don't you know there are stores you can buy kilts from?"

Sometimes it's about wanting to do things yourself.

Sometimes it's also about wanting something special, and not the run-of-the-mill, off-the-shelf, same-as-everyone-else variety.

When I got my new Sheriffmuir doublet a few months ago, for the first time I seriously began to consider a lace jabot. My wife is an expert knitter, and I have seen some of the Victorian lace projects she has done in the past. I knew she could make a georgous lace jabot, and it would be something that not only would look fantastic but would also be very special to me.\

I would also be able to get a jabot that looked the way I wanted it to look.

Here is the end result.

(Shown here with fellow X Marker, Ryan Ross, at the Burns Supper in Franklin, NC, last month.)

Here is the jabot itself.


I made this one to tie on, rather than velcro as most commercial ones are made because, in my mind, having my wife spend hours knitting the lace for this, it would be sacriledge to put velcro on it!

I tie it more or less the same way Robert shows in his excellent photos, only I tie the knot in front under the lace jabot, and the ends of the knot get hidden under the doublet, and so remain unseen.

By the way, if anyone wants more info about the lace jabot, or is interesting in having a hand knit made for themselves, you can go here:
http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/jabot_knit.htm

I can't wait to see the one you come up with, piperdbh!

[Phil]

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

Phil,

I think you are missing the point.

Not at all, Matt. I was talking about lace making, an old and skilled craft, not knitting. There is a difference. If the OP wishes to invest time (and money) acquiring the equipment and skills necessary I am sure he will have an absorbing hobby and, one day, might be able to create something approaching lace. In the meantime if he wants an actual lace jabot he might be better looking around for some to buy. Here is a site that may get him started - http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/lace/equipment.htm

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Originally Posted by Phil

Not at all, Matt. I was talking about lace making, an old and skilled craft, not knitting. There is a difference. If the OP wishes to invest time (and money) acquiring the equipment and skills necessary I am sure he will have an absorbing hobby and, one day, might be able to create something approaching lace. In the meantime if he wants an actual lace jabot he might be better looking around for some to buy. Here is a site that may get him started - http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/lace/equipment.htm

Piperdbh is a knitter (and a skilled one), and in his original post, he is asking about how the jabot collar is typically tied because "a certain member of a kilt forum" (no doubt referring to himself) plans on knitting himself one.

There are different ways to make lace, and one of which is by lace knitting. I assure you this is a very real and traditional craft, as well. My wife knit my jabot according to a pattern adapted from a nineteenth century Shetland lace knit shawl. If you are interested in seeing other examples of lace knit craft items, here is a blog full of wonderful photos of items made according to patterns from a book called Victorian Lace Today.
http://victorianlacealong.blogspot.com/

My wife has that book (as a matter of fact it is where she found the old Shetland shawl pattern), and it is full of absolutely beautiful examples of traditional Victorian lace knitting.

Could one go out and buy some premade lace and make his own jabot, as you suggest? Sure. Nothing wrong with that.

Could one learn the fine and venerable craft of making bobbin lace, which is what the link you provided deals with, and then make a jabot from that? Sure. That would be excellent.

Bobbin lace is one way of making lace. But not the only way.

But as piperdbh is a skilled knitter, I am assuming he has knit lace in mind for his project, and will be applying his considerable talent in that direction. And that is fantastic, too! :-)

[Phil]

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

There are different ways to make lace, and one of which is by lace knitting.

Now you mention it I seem to remember my wifes knitting machine (many years ago now) could do lace-type knitting, for shawls and that sort of thing I think. And I am sure whatever he makes he will be very pleased with it.

[piperdbh]

Yes, Phil, I'm knitting the lace. I've completed the first (top) two pieces and am about 1/4 of the way done with the bottom piece. I plan to sew it to a piece of white fabric just like Robert's and Matt's pictures above.

Robert, I had seen your pics on the Lady Chrystel's site, but didn't quite catch whether the ends were tied. Thanks for the tutorial.

Matt, I agree with you about the Velcro. I'll be tying mine around my neck, like the one your Mrs. made.

I showed your pictures to one of my students today and she said, "They look very dapper." Congratulations on having the approval of a high school senior!

Sydnie7, my jabot won't be as "full" as the ones you make, as I'm making the lace pieces narrower than yours.

For anyone interested, I'm using Sugar Rush yarn. It's made from "sugar cane viscose", whatever that is. It's pure white, feels very silky, and so far, looks really nice worked into lace. I'll have pics posted when I get it all done.

Thanks for the replies, one and all.