[peacekeeper83]

Looking good Ron!

[Bugbear]

Originally Posted by McMurdo

sure a jacket without epaulettes should be fine many Clan Chiefs wear the less ornamented jackets, basically the jacket comes down to the fell of the kilt but no further as you don't want it to cover up the pleats.

I guess that corduroy jacket I converted would be considered a Crail jacket.

Now that I know what the cuffs are like, I think I like the Argyle more than the Braemar style.

[Rollo]

This my braemar jacket

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Glen,

Great subject for a thread!

A few things to remember. First is that all of these jackets you are describing are essentially daywear kilt jackets. The differences can be boiled down to 1) sleeve details, and 2) the material the jacket is made from. I think we cannot discount the importance of No. 2.

The sleeve details are important, but I do not really think they are the most important factor in evaluating the formality of any given jacket. For example, in your original post, what makes the first jacket more casual looking than the other two is not the fact that it has Argyle cuffs, but the fact that it is a brown color Harris tweed. Cloth like that makes for a superb daywear jacket, but the darker color of the other two jackets you picture make them more suitable for "dressing up" for evening wear if the need arises; sleeve details notwithstanding.

Another caveat is that the names you have given to the different cuff styles are not universally followed. What you have laid out here is how most people would describe those types of sleeves. However, sometimes you'll encounter different usages, so let the buyer beware. For example, to most people a "Crail jacket" is one with plain cuffs. But "Crail jacket" is the name House of Edgar uses for their charcoal-grey kilt jacket with Braemar cuffs.

Some people use the term "Argyle jacket" to mean any kilt jacket with a shape and cut like those you have pictured, regardless of cuff style. What you call an "Argyle" cuff they will call a "gauntlett" cuff. So an "Argyle jacket" can have a gauntlett, braemar, or crail cuff.

Some people call a Braemar cuff a "Prince Charlie" cuff, because that style jacket is normally made with a Braemar cuff.

So just keep in mind that the terminology used in Glen's opening post is generally going to be followed in the Highland Dress industry, it is not universally so. Therefore when buying a jacket pay close attention to the pictures and details and when in doubt, ask the seller, to make sure you are getting the jacket you want.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Harris tweed jacket, Crail cuffs. Worn with matching tweed waistcoat.


Glen Tilt "tweed" jacket. This is really a worsted wool, not a tweed cloth. Isla Mill calls this line of patterns "tweeds" because they were inspired by estate tweed patterns. This one has Argyle cuffs. The fact that is is a worsted cloth, rather than a tweed, and is made with silver-tone buttons rather than horn, makes is a slightly more dressy jacket than the Harris Tweed one pictured above.


Another Argyle jacket, made just like the one above only in a solid color worsted wool, and with imitation horn buttons.


This is the exact make and cut of the above jacket, but instead of an olive green worsted wool, it is made of black wool, and the buttons are silver-tone, not horn. The choice of cloth and buttons make this jacket far more suitable to dressing up for formal functions.


But because the cut of the jacket is still the less-formal "argyle" style, the same jacket can be dressed down to wear for a more formal daywear setting, as we see below, by changing details such as tie, hose, sporran, etc.

[peacekeeper83]

Excellent examples Matt, you give me more food for thought, for considering my jacket purchase.

[McMurdo]

Exactly Matt, the first one is more suited to day wear because of the tweed used, the cuff detail matters little and is really a matter of choice, I suppose I should put in another shot this again I would only wear for day wear even though it has the Braemar cuff detail, as it is in the Burns Check

[puffer]

Originally Posted by McMurdo

I posted the following in another thread, for fear of a highjacking, have decided to take it to it's own thread, so what do you say regarding the formality of different day wear kilt jackets?
I hope this helps.

GLEN, I again wish to say thank you for this post & your invitation ( via PM ) to join in with my thoughts.

PUFFER

[puffer]

When ever we discuss subjects like this, IMHO, we often base our "OPINIONS" on our personal concepts of "what is proper attire". There are a number of "bias' ( in the positive sense) that come into play. Here just a few:
1. Our "cultural" background.
2. Our "Social" environment.
3. Our reasons for wearing the Kilt.
4. The "public Image" we wish to present.
5. ETC, ETC.

A CAVEAT - IMHO, Because of the above, we MUST ALWAYS Honestly examine our "bias'" & offer our opinions, with RESPECT, acknowledging the fact that others may be operating from a TOTALLY different set, which in their concepts are VALID.

It is with the above in mind, I humbly offer my " Personal opinions".

1. My "Cultural" Background = 1/4 German, the rest "primarily" UK ( English, Lowland Scots, Scots/Swede, Welsh/Irish, Welsh/Scots + since my "family" started coming to the "colonies" in 1622, I some other unknown "blood" mixed in other BUT although my family were ALL Immigrants, they BECAME AMERICANS in the "fullest" sense. ( they did not demean their "Old Country" Heritage, but it was of secondary importance). Although I DO NOT deny or in any way "discount" my "old Country" Heritage, I do not "flaunt" it. I am an AMERICAN.

2. My "Social Environment" = I live & interact, in a very DIVERSE Ethnic Neighborhood.( low to mid income) I do Historical research & presentations ( I am part of an "academic" research team) I also INTERACT. with & train LEOs & civilians as an NRA TC & CRSO, Sit on a Board of Directors, represent entities before State & county officials,etc.) MOST of ALL, I enjoy life & the people I have the PLEASURE of knowing.

3. WHY I WEAR THE KILT = I have chosen to wear a kilt, instead of PANTS as my DAILY ATTIRE. PLAIN & SIMPLE. When I wear my Kilted Attire, it is worn, NOT as "ETHNIC Dress" ( Highland Tradition) but basically as an "alternative Style of attire", which I LIKE.
DOES this mean that I disregard the fact that the KILT is symbolic of Highland Scots Cultural Heritage & PRIDE, NO!! I am VERY cognitive of this & I attempt to wear it with RESPECT. BUT AGAIN, when I wear the KILT, it is NOT worn to say "hey I am a SCOT, but to say I am KILTED. The MOST common ? I am asked is "are you Scottish ??" My reply is , "I have a lot of SCOTS in me, but I am an AMERICAN, who likes wearing the KILT." ( note, very often this ? is asked by individuals of Scots Heritage & I have NEVER had a NEGATIVE reaction from my reply. Quite the contrary. ( in fact, about 3 weeks ago, I was asked this by a Scots Gentleman, who was visiting the USA with his wife, & was involved with the British Council here in Seattle.We spent a couple of hours over lunch, in very enjoyable conversation & parted as "fast" friends )

3. Public Image = Taking the above into consideration, when I decided to exchange my pants for the KILT, Doing this for my "casual attire", was easy. ( I just wore the shirts, sweaters jackets, I would have worn with my "dockers, Jeans, etc.) The "Problem" came when I had to go into my " BUSINESS MODE" How do I still dress appropriately in this environment ??? MY MAJOR CONCERN, was that I DID NOT want my wearing a KILT, to detract from the "business I had to attend to & would be ACCEPTED by my PEERS as "Proper Attire"

MY choice, was to "simply" wear the "same upper attire as I would wear with PANTS ( adapted of course to fit the Kilt) If the occasion called for a "sports" Jacket, or "blazer" ( with or with tie, vest etc) then my kilt Jacket ( etc )would reflect the same "basic" style. If the occasion called for a 3 pc suit, Then ..

NOW THEN, having addressed my "BIAS', I will now present my "personal" view point on the ?? of "Day wear Jackets.

1. A Sports Jacket & "Blazers" in "civilian attire" are "casual" As MATT pointed out, the MATERIAL ( incl. color ) is perhaps the most important factor.
A. Sports Jackets often are wool Tweeds, corduroys etc. ( or quality blends)
B. Blazers are usually Worsted wool ( or quality blends)
C. Color for the above can & does include Browns, Greens, Brighter Blues etc.
D. The above is often worn with "casual ties & non matching vests.

IMHO This were the General genre referred to as "ARGYLL" fits. Glen's #1 & Matt's #1 Sports), #2 & 3 (Blazer)

2. 3 pc suit = Glen's #2 & #3 ( with matching vest) & Matt's # 2, #4, # 5 ( if worn with a matching vest )

A NOTE on ACCESSORIES = IMHO If I wear the 3 pc "look" then my ccesories are "subdued"

Here are my examples of #1 a "sports Jacket look, #2 a Blazer "look & #3 a 3 pc "look"



Thank you for your "patience & I hope that my "presentation" is accepted in the context it is MEANT, RESPECT for other views & offered to expand the envelope.. WEAR THE KILT WITH PRIDE & RESPECT

Puffer

[Dan R Porter]

What a great thread and great photos. We are just missing panache now! haha.

I prefer jackets without epaulettes, just my humble opinion. ANy idea what they were originally intended for?