[obuchiteck]

Originally Posted by Riverkilt

I've got some ink.

Its your skin/canvas

Follow your heart, not the rules.

Ron

I see what your saying, and normally I wouldn’t give two figs about other peeps opinion on what I want to do, and trust me my opinions don’t sway that easy. Nevertheless it’s more about not looking like a dumba** when there’s other options. I just don’t feel like explaining to every purist every time I bump into one why I’m disrespecting.

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by Riverkilt

I've got some ink.

Its your skin/canvas

Follow your heart, not the rules.

Ron

That's easy to say when it's not your property.

Arms are private property, as Macman mentioned. There is no such creature as a "family crest". In countries with a heraldic authority, such as Scotland, Canada, etc., the use of arms that are not your own is illegal -- the usurping of arms.

And yes, I know...America does not have a heraldic authority, no rules, freedom of expression and all that. But just because you can doesn't mean you should, if nothing else out of respect for the custom.

I would much rather see Americans "assume" their own arms with no recognition from a heraldic authority than usurp them from someone else. Some heraldic scholars believe that in a nation with no legal heraldic authority, assuming arms is acceptable, although they may not be recognized by the Lyon Court, et al.

Why not use the clansman's badge that you have displayed as your avatar, as Macman mentioned? That is the whole purpose of it, after all, for clansmen and clanswomen to show their loyalty to the chief and clan.

But really, unless you're claiming to be the actual Clan Chief, nobody is going to bother you.

Technically, though, by usurping the Chief's arms, you are doing just that.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here. I have been a student of heraldry for many years now, and I'm only telling you what I know. Our own Matt Newsome has a great introductory article on his web site about Scottish heraldry that is worth perusing:

http://www.albanach.org/scotheraldry.html

I dealt with this question on a fairly regular basis as a genealogical librarian, and I gave folks the same advice I'm giving you now: while technically, as many have said here, there is nothing "illegal" about here in the USA, it's just not correct. I feel that someone should give the opposing viewpoint in this thread for informational purposes.

But, in the end, it's your decision. I'm not going to attack you for it, or have you hauled in front of the Lyon Court. As a librarian, all I can do is provide the opposing viewpoint for your consideration.

Regards,

Todd

[obuchiteck]

Originally Posted by cajunscot

That's easy to say when it's not your property.

Arms are private property, as Macman mentioned. There is no such creature as a "family crest". In countries with a heraldic authority, such as Scotland, Canada, etc., the use of arms that are not your own is illegal -- the usurping of arms.

And yes, I know...America does not have a heraldic authority, no rules, freedom of expression and all that. But just because you can doesn't mean you should, if nothing else out of respect for the custom.

I would much rather see Americans "assume" their own arms with no recognition from a heraldic authority than usurp them from someone else. Some heraldic scholars believe that in a nation with no legal heraldic authority, assuming arms is acceptable, although they may not be recognized by the Lyon Court, et al.

Why not use the clansman's badge that you have displayed as your avatar, as Macman mentioned? That is the whole purpose of it, after all, for clansmen and clanswomen to show their loyalty to the chief and clan.



Technically, though, by usurping the Chief's arms, you are doing just that.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here. I have been a student of heraldry for many years now, and I'm only telling you what I know. Our own Matt Newsome has a great introductory article on his web site about Scottish heraldry that is worth perusing:

http://www.albanach.org/scotheraldry.html

I dealt with this question on a fairly regular basis as a genealogical librarian, and I gave folks the same advice I'm giving you now: while technically, as many have said here, there is nothing "illegal" about here in the USA, it's just not correct. I feel that someone should give the opposing viewpoint in this thread for informational purposes.

But, in the end, it's your decision. I'm not going to attack you for it, or have you hauled in front of the Lyon Court. As a librarian, all I can do is provide the opposing viewpoint for your consideration.

Regards,

Todd

This is my point in general. You see, could you imagine if I would of bumped into this chap at some Celtic fest. I just wouldn’t have the patience to tell him to get over it, and who knows he’s probably an awesome person and know I would of lost out on meeting him because of a history and cultural gaff.

So I’ve decided to just get the Scottish flag instead. It’ll keep me out of jail, as I have a short fuse.

[Riverkilt]

Tell you what....I still say follow your heart.

Looks like you researched the "rules." some. Its too bad when a man shows his allegiance in the "wrong" way....

Ron

[CelticRanger66]

To my fellow Clans of the Cat member:

My only advice is to make sure your brother places the Tattoo somewhere it isnt visible because I know the Army takes its Tattoo rules very seriously nowadays!!!

Good job on your sketch!!

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by obuchiteck

This is my point in general. You see, could you imagine if I would of bumped into this chap at some Celtic fest. I just wouldn’t have the patience to tell him to get over it, and who knows he’s probably an awesome person and know I would of lost out on meeting him because of a history and cultural gaff.

So I’ve decided to just get the Scottish flag instead. It’ll keep me out of jail, as I have a short fuse.

Sir,

As I said earlier, I am only giving you the opposing viewpoint, since there are always two sides to the story. What you do with the information is your business. I would never accost anyone at a games or festival (and believe me there are many opportunities to do so), but if I'm asked to give my opinion or provide the facts, I will do so. I'm obligated to do so, as an educator.

Regards,

Todd

[Archangel]

...and if push came to shove, lawyers would find a way to make you pay, across borders..

didn't mean for you to switch tattoos, I've seen a number of really good ones with the clan crest and belt and that would be okay.

Course there a woman here in town with the red rampant on her deltoid and a Wallace sword down her spine. Cool.

[Macman]

and a Wallace sword down her spine. Cool.

Wow, if I could talk my wife into THAT.

[obuchiteck]

This is kind of on/off subject..

So does that mean that I'm not allowed to have anything with the crest on it? ie..a plaque, clothing, etc.. When My grandfather died one of the things I inherited from him was a glass with the family crest on it.

Also, from reading this it seems to me that it means that I can't use the crest as my own, ie for a logo of a business. But it’s vague on wearing the crest with out an attempt to make proprietary gain. Kind of like me getting a big McDonalds logo on me. To wear and display this crest is not of offence, I assume. Also, if I have no rights to the crest, then I guess that means that I don't have a family crest, that's the clan chief's crest.

This is all confusing, and a bit archaic,

[Colin]

Like I said, I have seen hundreds of pics of people with Crest or clan badge tattoos. I have yet to hear of any of them being sued or even of anyone raising a stink. Do what you like, mate, I for one think it would be a great tattoo.

It's not like you are trying to pass yourself off as a clan chief or anything, you are looking to get a permanant salute to your family (immediate and family name).