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  1. #1
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    thoughts on bow-tie material with black argyle

    So I've read that for tuxedos (dinner jackets), the convention is to try and match the material for your bow-tie to your lapel facings.

    Has anybody given any thought to how this works with an argyle jacket with unfaced lapels? Or do you guys just wear the bow-ties you'd wear with your other formal outfits (tux or kilted) and call it a day?

    Now before I am accused of over-thinking things, I should explain why this has become relevant to me at all. I have realized that my current black bow-tie is satin polyester and want to replace it. I do not like the way polyester feels or ties and would not have bought the tie had I realized it wasn't silk, so now I have an opportunity to replace it and will probably go with either a grosgrain or satin silk tie from thetiebar.com. Most PC jackets look like they have satin facings but I think the grosgrain looks more like the deep black of my argyle jacket.

    What do others think? Honestly, at $22 a tie I can afford to get the grosgrain now and just buy a satin one should I ever buy a satin faced jacket.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilHunter View Post
    So I've read that for tuxedos (dinner jackets), the convention is to try and match the material for your bow-tie to your lapel facings.

    Has anybody given any thought to how this works with an argyle jacket with unfaced lapels? Or do you guys just wear the bow-ties you'd wear with your other formal outfits (tux or kilted) and call it a day?

    Now before I am accused of over-thinking things, I should explain why this has become relevant to me at all. I have realized that my current black bow-tie is satin polyester and want to replace it. I do not like the way polyester feels or ties and would not have bought the tie had I realized it wasn't silk, so now I have an opportunity to replace it and will probably go with either a grosgrain or satin silk tie from thetiebar.com. Most PC jackets look like they have satin facings but I think the grosgrain looks more like the deep black of my argyle jacket.

    What do others think? Honestly, at $22 a tie I can afford to get the grosgrain now and just buy a satin one should I ever buy a satin faced jacket.
    I have never heard that, nor ever seen that written; not that I seen the whole internet or all written works. I'm sure you will be fine. Others may feel, or know differently, so watch this thread.. lol

    Frank
    Drink to the fame of it -- The Tartan!
    Murdoch Maclean

  4. #3
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    I think you will be fine either way. Satin is pretty standard for black tie, but grosgrain is also perfectly OK, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that no one will notice as long as your tie is black.

    Andrew

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highland Logan View Post
    I have never heard that, nor ever seen that written; not that I seen the whole internet or all written works. I'm sure you will be fine. Others may feel, or know differently, so watch this thread.. lol

    Frank
    Iíve seen it mentioned here:

    Classic Black Bow Tie Fabrics

    And here:

    Dinner Jacket Facings: Satin, Grosgrain and Others
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilHunter View Post
    So I've read that for tuxedos (dinner jackets), the convention is to try and match the material for your bow-tie to your lapel facings.

    Has anybody given any thought to how this works with an argyle jacket with unfaced lapels? Or do you guys just wear the bow-ties you'd wear with your other formal outfits (tux or kilted) and call it a day?

    Now before I am accused of over-thinking things, I should explain why this has become relevant to me at all. I have realized that my current black bow-tie is satin polyester and want to replace it. I do not like the way polyester feels or ties and would not have bought the tie had I realized it wasn't silk, so now I have an opportunity to replace it and will probably go with either a grosgrain or satin silk tie from thetiebar.com. Most PC jackets look like they have satin facings but I think the grosgrain looks more like the deep black of my argyle jacket.

    What do others think? Honestly, at $22 a tie I can afford to get the grosgrain now and just buy a satin one should I ever buy a satin faced jacket.
    Get the grosgrain one, and try to get grosgrain lapels on your PC as well. It's a much better, more subtle look.

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  8. #6
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    I've always worn satin.

    At various times I've had satin facings though most often not. I've always worn the satin tie. When I'm wearing a regular bowtie with a standard coat I'm still about 2/3 satin vs others. Keep in mind *most* ties of *any* kind are made of a satin or shiny silk; regardless of with what they are to be worn. The single standout exception being the white tie for high formal occasions typically being gross grain.

    Here's the skinny. A satin tie looks fine even if you don't have satin facings. A gross grain looks funny if you wear it with satin facings or other shiny highlights. If you want to buy two ties great. Gross grain is appropriate as a "black tie" black tie for most formal coats that don't have any satin/shiny highlights.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilHunter View Post
    So I've read that for tuxedos (dinner jackets), the convention is to try and match the material for your bow-tie to your lapel facings.

    Has anybody given any thought to how this works with an argyle jacket with unfaced lapels? Or do you guys just wear the bow-ties you'd wear with your other formal outfits (tux or kilted) and call it a day?
    Very interesting question.

    Now, in the Victorian period up at least through the 1930s Argyll jackets intended for Evening Dress did indeed have satin lapels. One of my vintage catalogues shows one and calls it the "Evening Argyll". I have seen, by current makers, Argyll jackets intended for Evening wear with satin lapels, satin woven epaulettes, and corded button loops on the cuffs and pocket flaps (rather than the simple bead of fabric usually seen).

    I know that traditionalists wouldn't approve, but back when I was piping at 40 or so weddings a year I thought it best for my outfit to fit in with what the other men were wearing. Them being in black tuxes with black bow ties and matching cummerbunds I wore a black Argyll with black bow tie and cummerbund. My kilt was Black Watch, quite dark, which seemed to go over well with everybody. (Here, many Brides are concerned about the presence of clashing colours.) The fact that my tie and cummerbund were more shiny than my jacket never concerned me.

    But that was back in the 1980s! And I haven't worn a bow tie with an Argyll for 20 years. I wear a long tie with my Prince Charlie too, nowadays.

    BTW the Prince Charlies I've owned over the years didn't have satin lapels, but grosgrain as Mike mentions above.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 24th November 19 at 05:27 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  10. #8
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    "Traditionally" (certainly in military circles at least), black tie (as opposed to the Marcella white tie) would be a barethea wool tie (goes with any facing), or perhaps silk if you can afford it
    Dduw Bendithia pob Celtiaid

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  12. #9
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    I don't think it matters. I'd avoid something that is obviously in man made materials and a self tied bow tie looks better than a pre-tied tie.

    I'd also avoid a 70s velvet tie...

    What thinks the collective about cravats and jabots?
    The 'Eathen in his idleness bows down to wood and stone,
    'E don't obey no orders unless they is his own,
    He keeps his side arms awful,
    And he leaves them all about,
    Until up comes the Regiment and kicks the 'Eathen out.

  13. #10
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    Brings out the worst in me

    Having been taught many years ago to tie my own bow-tie and having been encouraged to wear silk (black of course), I tend to stick with that formula and I've found that for a good few years now I've avoided looking too closely at anyone else's bow-tie lest my innate horrible judgmentalism kicks in and my inner raised eyebrows transfer outwards into an actual facial expression.

    Things I've noticed include:

    Bow-ties have become hideously large in the last few years - I like mine modestly proportioned;

    Hardly anyone ties their own bow-ties nowadays - this is a pity but it makes me wonder if they ever did - at least in our lifetimes;

    While I prefer silk, a silk bow-tie can only be worn with an ultra-closely shaved chin and neck or with a mature beard - stubble of any degree will leave a silk bow-tie looking as if it's been pecked by birds;

    A self-tied bow tie must never look absolutely perfect - it must simply look as if the wearer is competent in his tying or that his wife is or his valet is;

    Never tuck your bow-tie under your shirt collar in what is known as the 'French' style - unless you wish to look ridiculous;

    At a black-tie event - as opposed to the office Christmas party - black remains the best colour for one's black tie.
    Last edited by Dr Bee; 3rd December 19 at 06:02 AM.

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