X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website The Scottish Trading Company
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 29 of 29
  1. #21
    Join Date
    21st March 17
    Location
    San Diego, USA
    Posts
    717
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KnittedReenactor View Post
    So, one judge, in one case made a determination, thereby setting precedent. However, it was never codified into law by HM nor Parliament.
    Would this decision still hold any legitimacy in modern British law, even though it would never have any real chance of being enacted/enforced?
    Further side question- pipers, although typically unarmed when piping, would still not qualify as noncombatants, like chaplins and medics?
    I would guess that a uniformed piper marching across no man's land with the other troops would be viewed and treated like any other enemy combatant by the German lines. He'd still be a part of the attack.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    15th January 19
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    69
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry Father Bill. My late grandfather was a minister and fire department chaplain. That is one word I should have spelled correctly.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    2nd May 08
    Location
    Mandurah, Western Australia
    Posts
    548
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilHunter View Post
    I would guess that a uniformed piper marching across no man's land with the other troops would be viewed and treated like any other enemy combatant by the German lines. He'd still be a part of the attack.

    Indeed.

    "I believe the purpose of war is to win victories... The heroic and dramatic effect of a piper stoically playing his way across the ghastly modern battlefield, altogether oblivious to danger, has an extraordinary effect on the spirit and enterprise of his comrades. His example inspires all those about him."
    [ Lieutenant Cyrus Wesley Peck VC, DSO & Bar, CO 16th (Canadian Scottish) Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force ]

    It is estimated that about 500 pipers were killed and a further 600 were wounded during WWI.
    Last edited by Bruce Scott; 2nd July 19 at 05:31 PM.

  4. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Bruce Scott For This Useful Post:


  5. #24
    The Q's Avatar
    The Q is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
    Join Date
    1st February 15
    Location
    Wetlands of Norfolk UK
    Posts
    879
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've read somewhere that although a lot of pipers were killed, many Germans wouldn't shoot them, because they considered them insane..

    (on top of that there were plenty of other targets with guns,...)
    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give"
    Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill

  6. #25
    Join Date
    21st May 08
    Location
    Inverness-shire, Scotland & British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,704
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you can find a copy, read The Pipes of War -- A Record of the Achievements of Pipers...1914-1918, by Sir Bruce Seton and PM John Grant. Published Maclehose, Jackson, Glasgow 1920. Mine is a signed first edition and the tipped-in coloured and b&w plates are superb, but I was told the other day that it has been reprinted. Does anybody have information on that? It would be fine to have Seton's research and knowledge more widespread.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    25th September 11
    Location
    SW North Carolina
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Check with Unicorn, Ltd - Scot Press. They may have access to copies.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    21st March 17
    Location
    San Diego, USA
    Posts
    717
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    I've read somewhere that although a lot of pipers were killed, many Germans wouldn't shoot them, because they considered them insane..

    (on top of that there were plenty of other targets with guns,...)
    An interesting thought. As a source of morale, I wonder if there were circumstances where they were specifically targeted as a way to demoralize the advancing unit?

    As for the Jacobite piper sentenced to death, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was just an excuse to kill someone already viewed as a traitor by the court. The argument that pipes are a weapon could have just been legal pretense to get another Jacobite in a noose.
    Last edited by FossilHunter; 5th July 19 at 07:38 AM.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    6th July 07
    Location
    The Highlands,Scotland.
    Posts
    14,032
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    I've read somewhere that although a lot of pipers were killed, many Germans wouldn't shoot them, because they considered them insane..

    (on top of that there were plenty of other targets with guns,...)
    There was an interview on TV with a German machine gunner not so long ago, who was on Sword beach on June 6 1944 who thought Bill Millin was completely mad and concentrated on other targets.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  10. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Jock Scot For This Useful Post:


  11. #29
    Join Date
    25th September 11
    Location
    SW North Carolina
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilHunter View Post
    An interesting thought. As a source of morale, I wonder if there were circumstances where they were specifically targeted as a way to demoralize the advancing unit?

    As for the Jacobite piper sentenced to death, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was just an excuse to kill someone already viewed as a traitor by the court. The argument that pipes are a weapon could have just been legal pretense to get another Jacobite in a noose.
    The court did not need an excuse. Nor did the judge need an argument; he apparently simply had to make a pronouncement. As you point out, the Jacobites were rebelling against the lawful King of Great Britain, which included Wales, Ireland and Scotland, as well as England. The Act of Settlement of 1701 had established, for the current leadership of Britain at least, who would be the monarch going forward. To rebel against the monarch who ruled based on that act, was treason no matter if you carried a sword or played bagpipes. To appear with the white cockade, wearing tartan and marching with the Jacobite forces was enough to convict you. There were very few defendants at the trials which followed the defeat at Culloden who were acquitted. Most who were, successfully argued that they were pressed by their chief or the local Jacobite leadership, some going so far as to say they were tied up and hauled to Charlie's army.

    Why poor James Reid was hanged, even though he claimed he never fought or carried a weapon, is unknown. Perhaps the judge didn't like his breakfast or maybe he couldn't stand bagpipe music. At any rate, the court convicted and punished a lot of guilty people and, it appears, a few innocent ones. The real travesty was the murder of innocents in the immediate aftermath of Culloden.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0