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Thread: Victoria on PBS

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    Victoria on PBS

    So I have been watching this on Masterpiece Theater and have noticed that the your Crown Prince is often seen in a kilt. But ponce line in last weeks episode made me wonder. There was a discussion about what the royal family would wear to an event and the Queen said something along the lines of "of course Bertie will wear his kilt, the Prince of Wales must be recognized".

    Since I tend to think of the kilt as a Scottish thing, and not (at least historically) a welsh thing, I wondered if this was just an odd line by the writers or if there is some traditional reason for the prince of wales to wear a kilt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFS1970 View Post
    So I have been watching this on Masterpiece Theater and have noticed that the your Crown Prince is often seen in a kilt. But ponce line in last weeks episode made me wonder. There was a discussion about what the royal family would wear to an event and the Queen said something along the lines of "of course Bertie will wear his kilt, the Prince of Wales must be recognized".

    Since I tend to think of the kilt as a Scottish thing, and not (at least historically) a welsh thing, I wondered if this was just an odd line by the writers or if there is some traditional reason for the prince of wales to wear a kilt?
    The Prince of Wales is a title. The bearer of the title's choice of attire has nothing to do with the title they hol. The current Prince of Wales is also well known for wearing kilts.

    Also period dramas aren't particularly accurate as a guide to history...

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    By tradition, the Prince of Wales is the premier title of the eldest male child of the Sovereign. He usually holds a number of other titles, including; Duke of Rothesey, Lord of the Isles and Great Steward of Scotland. The premier title is always used in England or in a national context but when in Scotland he is unusually referred to by one of his Scottish titles.

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    Prince of Wales / Duke of Rothesay

    The Prince of Wales and Duke of Rothesay are titles bestowed upon the heir apparent to the throne. "Bertie"/Edward would have carried both titles.

    I don't know whether "Victoria" accurately represents his fondness for kilts. On the other hand, at one point I wanted to figure out what kilt styles were worn during the 1920s. So I Googled "edwardian era kilt." The top image returned was a photo of King Edward, in his later years, in a kilt daywear set.

    On an unrelated note, my wife was laughing at the size of young Bertie's sporran in the "Victoria" series.
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    Bertie/Edward VII was quite a clothes horse. So he was celebrated for his style and had quite a bit of influence on mens clothing. Among the items he helped popularize were the dinner jacket (tuxedo to those from the US) and the homburg hat.

    I don't know how often he wore kilts, but I certainly find many images of him kilted online. Victoria was fond of all things Scottish and her family spent a good deal of time at Balmoral each year. When in Scotland, it was pretty standard for royal men to wear the kilt (still seems to be, actually). So that would seem to offer plenty of opportunities for the prince to be kilted.

    However, I have seen plenty of pictures of him in trousers and plus-fours as well. So the kilt doesn't seem to have been a personal signature for HRH.

    Andrew
    Last edited by kingandrew; 7th March 19 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Too much use of "certainly."

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    Perhaps to add some context - the episode in question took place in 1851 when the Prince of Wales was 10 years old. Queen Victoria is depicted as making his apparel choices.
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    I wondered the same thing about the half-pint prince's kilt. And, why it is dress Stewart and not the Royal.?

    As for the Prince of Wales title isn't that sort of thing bestowed in adulthood? That certainly was the case for the current prince.

    Liberties were taken to make a more entertaing narrative. In the episode where Victoria saves Albert from drowning under ice the actual event happened quite a bit before it was placed in the program's story line.
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    If HRH is 10 years old, then yes, his mother would decide what he's wearing. And kilts were popular clothing for upper-class boys during a good chunk of the 19th and early 20th centuries, so that might help make sense of the line. I seem to recall reading that the Dress Stewart tartan was developed at Victoria's behest, so maybe that's why the costume designer chose it? It is an interesting detail.

    Prince Charles had an investiture ceremony as Prince of Wales when he was a young man back in the 1960s. But that was an unusual event, designed to create some good PR in Wales at the time. He was already Prince of Wales, so the event was a formality.

    The heir is invested with all these titles at birth. When he becomes king, there is a coronation ceremony, but that happens months after the title is inherited, since there is quite a bit of planning and preparation that go into it.

    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benning Boy View Post
    As for the Prince of Wales title isn't that sort of thing bestowed in adulthood? That certainly was the case for the current prince.
    I think it varies - but isn't automatic - in Berite's case he became Prince of Wales on 8 December 1841, about a month after his birth. Whereas, he automatically became the Duke of Cornwall and the Duke of Rothesay (more relevant for kilt wearing) on his birth. Duke of Rothesay is also a restricted tartan that only the title holder may wear.
    Last edited by Tomo; 8th March 19 at 12:45 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benning Boy View Post
    I wondered the same thing about the half-pint prince's kilt. And, why it is dress Stewart and not the Royal.?
    Comparing the two in the Tartan Register, I can't particularly tell the difference between the Stewart Dress and the Stewart Dress Royal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomo View Post
    Duke of Rothesay is also a restricted tartan that only the title holder may wear.
    How does that work? In the Tartan Register, the Duke of Rothesay tartan is put in the "Royal" category (though there's a similar "District" tartan), but it doesn't list any restrictions.

    Does that make it a restricted tartan or not?

    There's also a Duke of Rothesay Hunting tartan, but it's listed as being in the "District" category, and no restrictions are listed.
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