Need Saltire Dimensions

[Cat]

Okay, so I decided that I'm going to make a Saltire of my own (yeah, I know I can buy one, but I could make a nice heavyweight version for little more than the inexpensive thin polyester ones. Plus I need a new project to do while I'm watching TV at night.) I've got the fabric and colors picked out, but I'm having issues with one important thing: the dimensions of the cross itself. (However, I know the flag doesn't have a set size, although ratio of 3:5 or 1:2 seem to be the most common dimensions.) I've read up quite a bit about the flag itself, and I'm a bit unclear about the width of the cross in the center. Half of the websites I've read have stated that the center of the cross is supposed to be 1/5th (20%) the width of the flag itself. The other websites have stated that the width of the cross should be equal to 1/5th the HEIGHT of the flag. I tried downloading at least a dozen different renderings of the saltire from various websites, and NONE of them have a saltire that measures the proper 1/5th (20%) of either the height or the width of the flag, no matter how I measure the cross. Granted this is most likely just a result of web graphics generally not adhering to "official standards" when it comes to stuff like this, but it's frustrating because I'd really like to know how, exactly, it should be measured. So if anyone has a Saltire flag (ESPECIALLY if the flag was made in Scotland), could you possibly lay your flag out flat and measure it for me? I'm interested in four measurements: the width and height of the flag itself, as well as the width and height of the white saltire measured in the middle of the flag (ie, measure from one inner blue point to the other inner blue point, both vertically and horizontally.) Alternately, if you've got a triangle ruler with a 45-degree edge, you could just measure across one of the white bars for me (just make SURE one edge is perfectly aligned with the edge of the white bar, and then measure across.) Thanks guys!

[Cat]

Nevermind, I figured it out (based on the Union Jack, which keeps the same ratios for the white saltire part of its pattern.)

The width across one of the arms should be 1/5th (20%) the size of the HEIGHT ("hoist") of the flag.

Thanks anyway. I'll post some pictures when I get around to making my flag in the next week or so.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

In heraldry ordinaries are often based on the rule of thirds. So, for a saltire you would first diagonally divide the field into thirds, and then draw the arms 2/3 the width of the centre third. (Bet you didn't know there were guidelines for this sort of thing, did you?) I'm too tired to do the math, but I think that works out to about 20% of the height of the shield?? Anyhow, the big question is, what is the official colour of the Scottish flag?

[The Wizard of BC]

From the Scottish Parliament website the color for the background is Pantone 300.

And from the same site, the 1/5th or 20% of the "flag" or height is correct for the width of the arm of the cross. The other dimension is called the "Fly" or length.

[English Bloke]

I figured it out (based on the Union Jack, which keeps the same ratios for the white saltire part of its pattern.)

Errr... Union Flag please, it's only called a Union Jack when flown from the Jack Mast of a ship.

However you're right about the Saltire bit of the flag and I was going to suggest the same thing.

[paulhenry]

Union Flag or Union Jack either is correct, indeed, whether the "jack" actually has to do with a ship is sometimes doubted.

[Carolina Kiltman]

I know that the flag of Scotland is the blue with the St.Andrew's cross in white upon it. However many vendors at games and such, sell license plates, stickers and the like of this flag with a yellow rectangle with a red, rampant Lion on it superimposed at the junction of the arms of the cross. Has this any "official" meaning or sanction?

[hospitaller]

According to the Lord Lyon's specs,

1. The Saltire Flag shall be of undetermined dimensions, but maintaining a 4:5 ratio




2. In order to draw the Saint Andrew's cross, the vertical side of the flag is divided in 6 equal spaces




3. Then a square of the dimensions taken on step 2 is placed on each corner




4. Connect the corners of each square in order to draw the cross




4. And the result is a correctly drawn Saltire Flag





The color is specified as Pantone 300

[Cat]

I know that, officially, the shade of blue is supposed to be "any shade of blue that is lighter than the blue of the Union Flag." Many people (including the office of the Lord Lyon) over the past several years have suggested standardizing the blue as Pantone process color # 300. It's not technically "official", but most flag makers have started using it anyway (BTW, the Pantone color of the Union Flag is # 280, which is much darker.)

Carolina,
No, those flags aren't "official." They're just a combination of various Scottish images (although I've seen some that were really nice.) Sometimes you'll see a Saltire with reversed colors (blue cross on white field) with a Lion Rampant in the middle. That's the official flag of Nova Scotia, which used to be a Scottish colony.

[Cat]

Hospitaller, Thanks for that. I'm not sure what ratio I'll be using, since 1:2 and 3:5 are acceptable (even the Lord Lyon's website says that the proportions aren't fixed.)I've been looking at a lot of other flag websites, and it seems 1:2 and 3:5 are all commonly used officially in Scotland. The Lord Lyon's website states a ratio of 4:5 to be "suitable", although I haven't seen any other vexillography websites that state that that ratio is commonly used, and I'm wondering if it's a typo on the LL website. Basically I can pick whatever ratio I find most pleasing, according to current Scottish law. I'm liking 3:5, since 1:2 looks a little "stretched out" to me (although it's almost the same ratio the US flag uses) and 2:3 and 4:5 look a little too "square". If I'm hand-sewing the thing anyway, I'm thinking a 6-foot by 10-foot flag would be awesome!!! *With all due respect, I think your measurements might be off a bit. Officially, the width of the arms must 20% (1/5th) the height of the flag, so you'd need to divide the height of the flag into 5 sections, not six (dividing it by six gives a width of 16.67%, which gives arms that are a little too thin.) But still, you've given me a really easy way to figure it out, so thanks!