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  1. #1
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    Six or Seven Celtic nations?

    I remember someone saying there were 6 Celtic nations, but also hearing there were 7.

    So who many and which ones are included?

    -Scotland
    -Ireland
    -Wales
    -Brittany

    Rest?

    France? Gael-Celts
    Spain? Iberian-Celts

  2. #2
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    I've always heard spoke of the "Seven Nations":
    - Ireland
    - Scotland
    - Wales
    - Cornwall
    - Isle of Man
    - Brittany (France)
    - Galicia (Spain)
    Gaelic (in either of its two branches) is spoken in six of the nations. Unfortunately Galicia no longer has the old tongue. The music in all seven nations is remarkably similar, sharing many instruments and musical forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacWage View Post
    I remember someone saying there were 6 Celtic nations, but also hearing there were 7.

    So who many and which ones are included?

    -Scotland
    -Ireland
    -Wales
    -Brittany

    Rest?

    France? Gael-Celts
    Spain? Iberian-Celts
    A kilted Celt on the border.
    Kentoc'h mervel eget bezaŮ saotret
    Omne bellum sumi facile, ceterum śgerrume desinere.


  3. #3
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    Thanks,

    So the list includes sub-sections of modern nations, even some with less "independance" than others. One part of Spain and one of France. I've heard various lists of 4 or 5 and reference to 6 and 7, but have not really researched it or tried to make a single list.

    As an American, I get odd ideas of "nation," "state," and "country." Technically, all the same, but we use "state" for "territories" and regional subgroupings within our "nation." A marked distinction is made between state and nation, which I am not aware is made ANYWHERE ELSE. I wasn't sure if Brittany, Cornwall, and Galicia were under "nation," as they are notably parts of England, France, and Spain in much more sense than Ireland, Man, Wales, or Scotland. Interestingly, only the Irish are really an independant nation, and that only includes the larger part of the isle.


    THANKS,

  4. #4
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    Please remember that the term "nation" as it is used in sthe study of history refers to a group of people that share a common language family. It has nothing to do with the nations as we know them today or as it is used politically.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC View Post
    Please remember that the term "nation" as it is used in sthe study of history refers to a group of people that share a common language family. It has nothing to do with the nations as we know them today or as it is used politically.
    True, very true.

  6. #6
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    According to the Celtic League, and various other academic institutions, there are six Celtic nations that have survived into the modern era. They base this criteria on a Celtic language still being spoken in the area as well as its attendant culture.

    These three nations form the Goidelic branch and their languages (Gaeilge, Gŗidhlig, and Gailck, respectively) are mutually intelligible:

    Ireland (…ire)
    Scotland (Alba)
    Isle of Man (Mannin)

    These three nations form the Brythonic branch and their languages (Cymraeg, Kernewek, and Breizhonek) are mutually intelligible:

    Wales (Cymru)
    Cornwall (Kernow)
    Brittany (Breizh)

    These two groups while from the same original proto-Celtic language are not mutually intelligible (i.e. Welsh is not understood by an Irish speaker in the same way that German is not understood by an English speaker)

    Galicia is not a Celtic nation. True, Celtic people inhabitated the area at one time, but they intermingled with later populations and their language (Galego) and attendant culture today is based on the Romance family of languages. No Celtic language has been spoken in the area since the 10th Century. As for loan words, there are actually more loan words of Celtic origin in English and French.
    Galician separatist movements in the past have used the "Celtic" card to reinforce their differences from the dominant Castillian Spanish culture of Spain.
    Incidentally, there was also a place in modern-day Turkey called Galicia which was inhabited by Celts.

    France is not a Celtic nation either by this standard. They lost their Celtic culture after the Roman conquest, became thoroughly Romanised and were later conquered by Germanic peoples like the Franks.

    And my parents said my degree was a waste!

    Is mise le meas,

    SeŠn Liosliath ” hAirt
    [B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]John Hart[/COLOR]
    Owner/Kiltmaker - Keltoi

  7. #7
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    No clue who's right.

    The Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society http://www.nachs.info/regions.htm

    Shows the flags of eight on their webpage

    Asturias
    Brittany
    Cornwall
    Galacia
    Ireland
    Isle of Man
    Scotland
    Wales

    And, there's a handy little map and info on each region.

    Ron
    Last edited by Riverkilt; 26th November 06 at 11:23 PM.
    Ol' Macdonald himself, a proud son of Skye and Cape Breton Island
    Lifetime Member STA. Two time winner of Utilikiltarian of the Month.
    "I'll have a kilt please, a nice hand sewn tartan, 16 ounce Strome. Oh, and a sporran on the side, with a strap please."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by slohairt View Post
    ......Incidentally, there was also a place in modern-day Turkey called Galicia which was inhabited by Celts....
    True, St. Paul wrote a letter to these Galatians.
    A kilted Celt on the border.
    Kentoc'h mervel eget bezaŮ saotret
    Omne bellum sumi facile, ceterum śgerrume desinere.


  9. #9
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    At the National Eisteddfod every year they hold an international day when representatives of Celtic nations make a speech in the main tent in their own language.

    Will have to list them next year!

    The most common usage of Six Nations over here is to do with Rugby Union but only half of them count as Celtic - Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

    England France and Italy don't count although France and England can claim Celtic portions.
    Reverend Earl Trefor the Sublunary of Kesslington under Ox, Venerable Lord Trefor the Unhyphenated of Much Bottom, Sir Trefor the Corpulent of Leighton in the Bucket, Viscount Mcclef the Portable of Kirkby Overblow.

    Cymru, Yr Alban, Iwerddon, Cernyw, Ynys Manau a Lydaw am byth! Yng Nghiltiau Ynghyd!
    (Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Cornwall, Isle of Man and Brittany forever - united in the Kilts!)

  10. #10
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    France is become one country by her kings' willing (act of Villers-Cotteret by King Francis Ist in 1537 for instance). THe French Revolution and Empire (1789-1815) made the country one Nation under the same and equal Law. There is no Britannic nation. Britanny is but an essential part of the French Nation under the Republic.

    The Six-Nations Rugby championship come from French-British History. It was formerly the Five-Nations. The four British Nation (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland) and France. But remember Edward IIIrd's claim to be King of France during the XIVth century! Remember the Chapter hall of Westminster abbey! Remember the Fleurs-de-Lys close from the Lion guardant in the old Royal Standard. In this way, France is a British nation too!

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