Cheap pipes?

[auld argonian]

I may be stepping in a big pile of dog doo by even asking this but there seems to be enough Xmarksers conversant with the bagpipes that I would think I might get a straight answer here.

Let's say this friend of mine...let's call him Bold Bargonian...was interested in attempting to learn the pipes. He's been playing the recorder, Boehm Flute, tin whistle, Irish flute, etc. for a while...not the best player but a reasonably competent amateur...what's the best suggestion for an economical set of pipes to start with (got a practice chanter...but that's part of the conundrum)?

Obviously a set of pipes can run an easy $1,000 US and up....are any of the less expensive sets made in Pakistan even worth getting? One sees a lot of them on ebay and in various online music stores and I have to think that there may be some of them that are adequate if not great...and I can settle for adequate; this is for my own amusement only - don't intend to perform publicly. If that is a possibility, I would think that there are some pipes in this class that are better than others or some online dealers who sell a better class of merchandise or who tweak them up a bit before shipping them to buyers...anyone have any insight into this?

The practice chanter (gift from my mom...I think she bought it off QVC or something) is obviously a product of the Sunny East and ain't exactly what I'd call a precision instrument...just wondering if all of the "imported" pipes related gear is as un-wonderful as this chanter or if there are any possibilities out there.

best

AA

[lrpddrummie]

AA,

I come to you as a Drum Major for a pipe band and I have seen and heard all kinds of pipes. The best advice I offer is "you get what you pay for." Avoid any pipes from Pakistan. Avoid anything that is not made from a higher quality wood. There are a lot of pipes out there that are made from plastic and all sorts of low grade wood. You want something made from a "hard" wood. I would stay away from online music stores. Stick with the reputable suppliers and manufacturers. Many of the members of my band have found really nice pipes at a low cost. Search eBay for a piper who is selling pipes because he/she bought new ones. If you have a local pipe band supplier see if they have anything that has been in their shop for awhile or with the reputable suppliers for overstock items because you can usually negotiate on the price. Contact any bands in your area, you never know what people have lurking in their closets. What it all comes down to is that you don't want pipes that don't sound good, even though they are for your own entertainment, you'll just get frustrated with them and they'll end up in the back of your closet. Good luck...I'll keep an eye out in my area

[haukehaien]

I would really suggest that you stay away from the Asian pipes. Some of them apparently aren't bad, but most are terrible. Quality control appears to be nonexistant, so you have no idea what you'll wind up with. If you really want to play pipes - I mean, if your friend really wants to play pipes, go with an established maker. If you get Pakistani pipes, be prepared for a chanter that is nowhere near in tune with itself, a bag that may or may not leak, lightweight wood covered in black paint, a narrow blowstick and so on. If you did get such a set and wanted to actually play it, you would probably wind up replacing the bag and chanter, and maybe the blowstick as well. When you replace the chanter and blowstick you will almost certainly have to drill out the stocks, because they will be too narrow to accept a standard chanter or blowstick. The drones are generally narrow and rough, which results in a quiet sound with none of the harmonics that make the pipes sound so amazing. If you bore out the drones and line them with brass or polish them, they may sound good - but again, this will take time and/or money, cutting into your perceived savings.

I would suggest two things: if you're going to buy pipes, look at the Delrin/polypenco models. For example, check out the Dunbar P-series. Western Thunder has them starting at USD 595, and you may be able to beat that by looking around a bit. I bought my P-3s from Derek at WT, and have been very happy with them. They sound wonderful - I've gotten several compliments on the sound - and look good as well. From even a foot or two away you can't tell they're not blackwood. Several of the other makers also make polymer pipes, so don't limit your search to Dunbar. Polymers also have the advantage of being unaffected by humidity and temperature changes, which is nice when you're first learning to play. BTW, Dunbar also makes good PCs in poly - you may want to pick up one of them.

Second advice? Find an instructor. A good teacher now can save you a lot of grief later, as well as help steer you to good pipes. It's terribly easy to pick up bad abits when you start and terribly hard to unlearn them later on - best to start off right. Check with one of the many pipe bands in Chicago - a lot of them offer free instruction to band members. Check out Bob Dunsire's forum and Andrew Lenz's wonderful page of tips . Don't miss Andrew's bit on teaching yourself.

Good luck with the piping!

[Prester John]

I agree with the suggestion for Dunbar's polypenco pipes.

I'm preparing to get a set for my 11 yr old son very shortly.

They sound terrific, they're much lighter than a wood set (good for him, obviously) and they withstand extremes of moisture, weather and abuse that would ruin a wood set.

They also come with all the fancy additions you can add to wood pipes to make them ridiculously expensive, if you like.

[Colin]

Check out http://www.larkinthemorning.com/sear...ss&ss=bagpipes

I don't know how the pipes compare to the more expensive types, but for these prices I would be willing to find out.

[highlander_Daz]

I have a set of Pakistani pies but Ive repleced the chanter with a War-mac polypenco chanter fitted a little mac and fitted Souter synthetic reeds. I can cork the drones and use it as a goose. I have a more expensive set for band stuff but I got the Pakistani ones to work OK.

I would reccomend you dont worry about pipes for the time being and get a FULL SIZE good quality practice chanter, a cheap chanter will hold you back.
find a decent band and get some lessons, its pointless trying to teach yourself. a good band will give you cheap lessons youll also get first refusal on equipment for sale, most bands will let you march with them with the pipes corked until you get the hang of things, youll be on the chanter for about 12 months learning the scale, GDE grace notes, doublings, Birl and throw on D. taorluath and leumluath. once you can do these you move on to a couple of tunes normally "Bruces address" and "High road to Gairloch".

then you can think of moving onto pipes with stopped up drones.

So dont rush and buy some cheap pipes buy a good full-size chanter

good luck

[auld argonian]

Thanks for the dope...it was pretty much what I expected to hear about the "import" pipes...just thought that, on the odd chance, there might be one or two "import" suppliers who know their @$$ from a hole in the ground.

The Dunbar set sound really intriguing...I went through a lot of research before I bought a D flute and ended up buying one of Doug Tipple's PVC instruments and haven't regretted having "gone plastic" for one minute...great tone and very little maintenance. Looks like the odds of finding a set of the Dunbar P1's used is remote as I see that they have a niche as the weatherproof "beater" pipes for the accomplished player.

Parlor pipes sound intriguing because it seems that they have the ability to play in B-flat, A or D with the use of accessories. Is that something that a full size set of pipes can do...I can see the possibility of fudging the tuning between A and B-flat...I expect, though, that D is out of the question.

This may be a project that should be undertaken in the next fiscal year...I'll keep an eye out and hang on.

Come to think of it, my buddy owns a music store and does a brisk business in Celtic (fiddles, bodhrans and whistles...no bagpipes...but he is inclined to give me a "family" discount). Used to have a piper living a block or two over who did give lessons at my friend's shop for a while but the fella moved away and there wasn't much demand for the lessons anyway.

Interesting note: on one of the websites where the Dunbar pipes are sold they have an MP3 sample of the sound of the P1...I punched it up and as soon as it began the cat, who has been sleeping peacefully on the couch all morning, got up and left the room in a hurry...oooookay!

best

AA

[cavscout]

I second the need for a full size chanter. As with any skill based on manual dexterity, your fingers learn where to move and HOW FAR to move. The shorter, cheaper chanters will teach your fingers to move the wrong distance and you will have to re-learn once you start using the chanter on the pipes which will have more distance between the holes. You also will have a lot of finger stretching to do during practice to allow the nimble movements for the more advanced fingering this will be hindered on a short chanter.

The band I practiced with actually had extra pipes on hand and were willing to loan them to me to practice with.

[auld argonian]

re: Cavscout's remarks about the chanter...

...one of the things that I enountered when moving on to a low D whistle and the D flute was the spacing of the holes: I had been using the pads of my fingertips with the other instruments up until then and had to learn "the piper's" style of fingering using more of the finger and less of the pad. It's a definite adjustment for the average woodwind player.

best

AA

[jjoseph]

I agree with the suggestion for Dunbar's polypenco pipes.

Yup. What he said.