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  1. #21
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    Patrick,

    Post is getting to be more and more like the discussion we enjoyed about when to wear the dirk....

    If you are happy with you look, then be happy with your look. You made your choice, and obviously you have the confidence of wearing what you feel is your fashion and are enjoying it. However, you opened up a discussion, on a site that has some of the best advice you can get, if you ask and accept it. Not all people consider certain items being sold as Scottish attire, but more of a Renaissance Festival interpretation of Scotland. It's very hard to convince others if what you like is not fully accepted, that it should be. Again, not saying what you like is wrong, as there is no work, but you post and wanted to know why.

    I too have learned from many, Jock especially I consider a mentor, among many others and I know, regardless of what I say, Jock will provide me a straight and honest reply. I might not agree, but he is entitled to his own view, and I take every bit of what he states into my thought process. Because of his and others inputs what I thought was Scottish, was more of my own desire to be "authentic" or trying to be much more of what it actually is. My Grandfather came from Antigonish, Nova Scotia, and was as Scottish as one could get coming from his home. I remember him wearing certain items, and everything I can remember, was very conservative, and not flashing, but considered his dress. Jock has brought me back to this, and I appreciate it.

    Sure, I have the same shirt, never wore it, tried it on, very comfortable, but that lacing on the neck I did not like, as previous stated it was too close to the Ponderosa Shirt of the 60's, now often referred to as the hippie shirt. Sits in my closet, size Large, if you need another one, never work sell it to you for half price, let me know, its white or cream. Just will never wear it. If you wish to see other shirts that I know you will like, send me email and I will like you up with a place that has a large variety of shirts, seriously, I know you will like, these are alternatives to the Ghillie Shirt.

    If you don't like ties why not look at band collar shirts, or as Kilts USA suggested the Irish Grandfather Shirts, these are very nice. Nobody here that I know of on this site wants to embarrass or insult you at all, but when you opened the box, you really got to understand you will get a lot of different view, some more passionate than others, some more comical, and some will agree. Its a mix bag, go with the flow, wear what you wish and enjoy those moments when you can wear your kilt and attire, in other words HAVE FUN.
    Last edited by CollinMacD; 6th August 18 at 08:56 AM.
    Allan Collin MacDonald III
    Grandfather - Clan Donald, MacDonald (Clanranald) /MacBride, Antigonish, NS, 1791
    Grandmother - Clan Chisholm of Strathglass, West River, Antigonish, 1803
    Scottish Roots: Knoidart, Inverness, Scotland, then to Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada.

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  3. #22
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    My view on kilts and ghillies: the kilt has evolved like any other item of clothing from 400 years ago. I don't wear tartan kilts for re-enacting, I wear them as pieces of clothing which in our society have strongly signified cultural connotations*. The kilt has furthermore been adopted by a much broader population than those wishing to signify or embody in some way a family or personal connection to Scotland or the Highlands and also given rise to non-tartan garments like Utilikilts and other modern interpretations. For these wearers I'd expect a ghillie shirt is even further from contemplation since the point is simply comfort or fashion or iconoclasm or whatever other personal reasons people have for wearing them.

    In my own wear, I fit the kilt into my modern context combining it with contemporary clothing. So, I wear modern button-front shirts, modern knitwear, and modern shoes or boots in combination with the kilt. I try to wear it as a living garment, if that phrasing makes sense. So in my personal context the ghillie shirt doesn't fit with anything I do.

    *although my connections with that culture seem thinner the more I dig into family history; most of my Scottish ancestry, already three generations removed, is Orcadian, definitely not a Highland culture. I suspect Grandma's Nicolsons were closer to Scandinavia in lineage than Skye

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  5. #23
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    In general, I'm of the mindset of most others here that it just looks like a costume.

    I've only seen one person be able to pull of the ghillie shirt and have it look good, and it's only because every single other aspect of his outfit was spot on.

    Most people I've seen wearing one are also people who don't seem to fully know how to actually wear a kilt and or accessories: kilt on backwards, ghillie brogues laced all the way up their legs, 20 different blades of different time periods hanging all over their body, etc.

    If you're dead set on wearing a ghillie shirt, may I suggest losing the fly plaid and feather, tie your ghillie brogue laces significantly lower (about the ankle bone), and go with a simple day sporran. As you wear it right now, you look like a tourist who walked into a "kilt shop" in the Golden Z or along the Royal Mile and was taken by the guy inside selling Pakistani wares as authentic Scottish clothing.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickHughes123 View Post
    When I wear it, I am trying to look like a person in cultural wear. Not a person in a costume. I think if we wear the kilt, which is from the past, why not wear the shirt that went with it? I know it is a modern recreation, but I see it as the modern equivalent.

    And I personally see it as the only suitable shirt to go with the kilt. Not a big fan of wearing normal shirts or ties.
    The kilt is from the past but it has endured until the present. While they are not worn as much these days (traditional tartan kilts in Scotland I mean) there is an unbroken progression of them from historical times until now. As such the fashion of kilt wear has evolved alongside trousered dress and there is a lot of overlap in the traditional styles of dress for both.

    There is a bit of a false dichotomy between traditional and modern as a traditional business suit is still modern (or maybe classic) even if it isn't on the cutting edge of fashion. I feel that the same goes for kilts. There has been a trend on this forum towards kilt jackets that lack epaulets or gauntlet cuffs. So while that trend is modern those jackets are still traditional and the gaunleted jackets with epaulets are still modern even if someone might think of them as sort of old fashioned.

    So wearing a kilt with saxon shirts and ties has evolved naturally and has been practiced by kilted Scots long before you and I were born.

    Now ghillie shirts do not follow an unbroken evolution. They are a modern take on a historical shirt so there is a huge gap between what they are based on and now. They are romantic anachronism and there is nothing wrong with that if one wants to wear them. I just think we have to acknowledge that fact.

    Personally, when I wear a kilt, I want to look modern and traditional. I don't wear a plaid or a powder horn but I will still wear brogues and a button up shirt. A powder horn looks out of place today but you can still buy brogues at any department store in the USA.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

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  9. #25
    PatrickHughes123 is offline This person has opted out of remaining active
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOJiMBO20 View Post
    In general, I'm of the mindset of most others here that it just looks like a costume.

    I've only seen one person be able to pull of the ghillie shirt and have it look good, and it's only because every single other aspect of his outfit was spot on.

    Most people I've seen wearing one are also people who don't seem to fully know how to actually wear a kilt and or accessories: kilt on backwards, ghillie brogues laced all the way up their legs, 20 different blades of different time periods hanging all over their body, etc.

    If you're dead set on wearing a ghillie shirt, may I suggest losing the fly plaid and feather, tie your ghillie brogue laces significantly lower (about the ankle bone), and go with a simple day sporran. As you wear it right now, you look like a tourist who walked into a "kilt shop" in the Golden Z or along the Royal Mile and was taken by the guy inside selling Pakistani wares as authentic Scottish clothing.
    Interesting.

    When I bought the kilt, I didn't know as much as I do now. I spent about a year, staying up all night looking at pictures of Highlanders and Jacobites on the internet. And I wanted a kilt so I bought one. I regret not looking into buying a kilt on the internet. And to be honest, I got the full-dress sporran because a day sporran is too plain for my liking. But these are thing I will take into consideration when I have to buy the kilt again because my current stuff has wore away into nothing, which will happen.

    Next time I will buy a day plaid. I won't buy another feather plume. I will buy a day sporran next time. I'm compiling both your comments and Jock's.

  10. #26
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    Lots of Gillies

    Was just at the zcolorado Scottish Festival, and a lot of people were them. As far as "tradition" goes, most people don't care, and if they do so what. A good percent of people who wear the kilt don't dress 100% accurately anyway. Footwear is a great example of not being historically accurate. Wearing a utility kilt isn't any different than wearing a ghillie. Just my opinion.

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  12. #27
    PatrickHughes123 is offline This person has opted out of remaining active
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twrecks911 View Post
    Was just at the zcolorado Scottish Festival, and a lot of people were them. As far as "tradition" goes, most people don't care, and if they do so what. A good percent of people who wear the kilt don't dress 100% accurately anyway. Footwear is a great example of not being historically accurate. Wearing a utility kilt isn't any different than wearing a ghillie. Just my opinion.
    What footwear exactly?

    Because Ghillie Brogues/Buckle Brogues, Hose, Flashes and Sgian Dubh are traditional components of Highland footwear. This is the traditional option.

  13. #28
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    Footwear

    Patrick, I am speaking of the fact that a lot of people wear all manners of footwear with their kilts. Sandals, combat boots, sneakers and a lot of costume boots are all commonly worn with kilts these days. One can argue the historical accuracy of the costume boots just as much as the "Jacobite" shirt. Ultimately, what someone wears with a kilt isn't really worth getting upset about, as most people will not care. Wearing the kilt is all about freedom.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickHughes123 View Post
    When I wear it, I am trying to look like a person in cultural wear. Not a person in a costume. I think if we wear the kilt, which is from the past, why not wear the shirt that went with it? I know it is a modern recreation, but I see it as the modern equivalent.

    And I personally see it as the only suitable shirt to go with the kilt. Not a big fan of wearing normal shirts or ties.
    I wear pants, which were also designed in the long past, it doesn't mean that I'm going to wear an antiquated shirt to go with it. Modern kilts of any type aren't really the exact same as the period that shirt is meant to represent; whether a 4yd box, an 8yd tank, or a utilikilt none of them with modern tailoring and fit are the same kilt as what was worn in the Jacobite period. So why wear a shirt that tries to drag it back there? I do have one, I got it when I worked at the Ren Faire in Sterling 25 years ago, 16 years before my first kilt, and still wear it if I'm gonna spend time kicking around a Ren Faire regardless of pants or kilt. It doesn't really fit there either but its still fun which is the point.
    For me the kilt is a pants/shorts replacement for my modern attire, what I wear with the shorts I wear with the kilt, same with pants. While that shirt is a costume piece in my eyes, I bought it as a costume piece and can't see it as anything other than. Doesn't mean you can't, I've hung out with plenty of people who's daily clothes were far far worse than that and have been guilty of the same at times myself (heck, anyone who wore bell bottoms as a fashion has worn far worse ). So if it fits your style or personality then wear it and enjoy it. I will second the grandfather shirt like the ones at USA kilts, they are a little dated but add a nice look to the kilt without making it a costume, but then I would wear the same shirt with pants so for me it works.

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  16. #30
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    Historically, the closest thing I have seen to a ghillie shirt is an 18th century hunting frock without a cape. These were worn as an outer garment for hunting or during working conditions that would involve getting clothing dirty. I have also seen similar historic examples that had a single button at the neck opening, but never an example with a leather lace.

    The hunting frocks were an outer garment. The frock with the single button at the neck was considered an undergarment. It was rude to wear one without a waistcoat. Here is the kicker. It's not the 18th century. You can wear whatever you like.

    That said, if you like the jacobite shirt, wear it. If it makes you happy and you like it, wear it. Your personal preferences are what really matter. I can honestly say that fashion often disregards the dominant paradigm.

    You do you. It's not the hair, it's the do.
    More power to you, brother.

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