[lethearen]

I'm starting to chomp my bit a little for my next traditional kilt purchase, even though it probably won't be until spring. Most likely I'll be going through Scotweb because I've been so pleased with their service and quality.

So I'm thinking Ferguson Weathered or possibly Laing. I've got a Ferguson Modern 8-yd and an Ancient 5-yd for my mother's side, and I really like the weathered colourset; Laing would be from my father's side and it looks nice, but lord that fabric is expensive! In any case, I'm not concerned about the tartan itself right now. I have most of a year to flip-flop my opinion, and I'm sure I will several times

What I was pontificating in particular at this point is the difference between the Balmoral and the Manley Richardson lines. Both my Ferguson kilts are Balmoral, and for the most part I'm very happy with them both. But I keep leaning towards the MR, because one would assume it's higher quality.

Does anyone have experience with both these brands they wouldn't mind sharing?

[davidlpope]

I'd suggest PMing Nick or emailing the folks at ScotWeb directly. My guess is that the Balmorals are machine-sewn and the "MR" are hand-sewn...

David

[ForresterModern]

Scotweb's Balmorals are mostly handsewn with a few parts that are not seen machine sewn, which from what I have gathered also helps make those portions of the kilt a bit stronger. The Balmoral is a fine kilt by any standards.

The Manley Richardson is the Mercedes-Benz/Lexus/Bentley of the kilt world, and has special custom monogrammed lining and all other manner of special cosmetic upgrades, but I do not know how much different they are "under the hood", so to speak. They, along with Kinlock-Anderson, are the gold standards in the retail kilt industry for extreme top of the line.

It is your decision as to whether they are worth the extra cost. What shows and how it stays together over the years is what is important to me. I am not making what I would consider to be an investment, expecting some heirloom payoff at some point in the future because my kilt has a certain label or was made by a certain person or company, and thereby must be worth more. I am a "more bang for the buck" kind of guy where my own personal impression of the differences in a Manley-Richardson seem to me at least to be "more buck for the bang". But I must temper this opinion by admitting I have never owned, worn, inspected, or, to the best of my knowledge, seen a Manley-Richardson in person, and do not personally know anyone who owns one.

Again, just one man's O.

jeff

[davidlpope]

Originally Posted by ForresterModern

The Manley Richardson is the Mercedes-Benz/Lexus/Bentley of the kilt world, and has special custom monogrammed lining and all other manner of special cosmetic upgrades, but I do not know how much different they are "under the hood", so to speak. They, along with Kinlock-Anderson, are the gold standards in the retail kilt industry for extreme top of the line.

Jeff,

As I understand it, "Manley Richardson" is merely a trade-name that Scotweb uses for this particular "class" of kilt that they sell. In other words, it's simply the best kilt that Scotweb sells. I'm not sure that its "luxury status" is independently attested to by anyone else.

That being said, I'm sure it's a well-made kilt and Nick would ensure that it is very high-quality. I wouldn't guess, however, that Scots would recognize that trade-name as a "Rolls-Royce" in the way that other highland dress establishments have attained a near-legendary reputation, etc.

David

[lethearen]

Originally Posted by davidlpope

I'd suggest PMing Nick or emailing the folks at ScotWeb directly. My guess is that the Balmorals are machine-sewn and the "MR" are hand-sewn...

David

From what I've seen, both the Balmorals and the Manley Richardsons are offered in fully hand sewn (for a 50 quid upcharge) and mostly hand sewn with some machine bits.

There is a bit of extras that the MR offers, as well, such as different colours for the leather straps and different metals for the buckles.

[Nick Fiddes]

Thanks for the question lethearen. This is a great example of how useful a forum like this is to us as well as the community, since it helps us to 'see ourselves as others see us', if I may borrow from the Bard.

And in fact what this has woken me up to is that the way we were presenting the Manley Richardon kilts on our web site wasn't really doing them justice. The descriptions were written several years ago and hadn't been properly looked at since. So I've just gone back and given them what I hope communicates more effectively why there's such a difference. See http://www.scotweb.co.uk/kilts/kilts..._eightyardkilt for example. But I'll also take a little time here to explain more fully...

In short, the Balmoral is a kilt of which we're extremely proud, and into which years of large and small production improvements have gone, to supply a garment that stands up to the very best available elsewhere, but is offered at a quality and price that no one else can match. Yes, full-hand sewing is available at a fairly modest premium (which means it's still about half the price of Kinloch Anderson's equivalent, for example). But there are many other ways we've developed in association with our kiltmakers to reduce costs whilst actually improving quality rather than reducing it. Raising quality ALWAYS comes above cutting costs. So for example, without giving away trade secrets, our process for pleating correctly and accurately for each tartan sett is enormously faster than most hand-makers. Our pressing process produces pleats far faster AND more durable than any hand-maker's iron or home press. And by using machining in the more labour-intensive but invisible areas, alongside lots of other detailed ways to improve the quality whilst reducing the overheads, we deliver a product that's outstanding to inspect and to wear, but at an incredible price.

The Manley Richardson kilt is a totally different ball game. It is not only hand-sewn and hand-made in the most traditional way by some of the most experienced kiltmakers in Scotland. But customers are enabled, nay encouraged, to become co-creators of their own kilt in a bespoke process that goes far beyond what most kiltmakers can offer. The touches such as embroidered linings and embossed buckles and straps are just the icing on the cake. The real difference is that the kilt's owner can ask for practically any custom finish they want, and if it's physically possible they'll get it, usually at no extra charge because it's being hand-made for you already. We've just had to raise our prices for these due to the far greater person-hours involved (if you ask nicely sometime soon, we'll try to match the old prices) but it's still much less expensive than the Kinloch Anderson equivalent, and that's before all the no-cost options with MR such as box pleating that KA charge for.

I'm not knocking Kinloch Anderson in any way, by the way. We know them well (not least since we developed their first web site for them, and taught them how to market online). They're a company I have a lot of time and respect for, both professionally and personally. So that means they're the traditional gold standard against which we measure our own offer. And I think we have a lot to be proud of there.

[lethearen]

Nick, thank you very much for taking the time to explain everything out for me. I believe I read that you had been out on holiday. Hopefully you had quite a pleasant one!

I trust my question didn't cause too much work for y'all in revamping the description online! But I am rather glad you did. The new description definitely gives a better feel for the quality (and cost) difference between that and the Balmoral. And it definitely helped sway my opinion in favour of the Manley Richardson. All the options available are daunting, though! But I've got some time to decide Thanks again!

[Nick Fiddes]

Cheers - if there's anything that's still confusing, do please just say... since if you find it daunting, I hate to think what a relative newcomer makes of it all!

And yes, the holiday was grand, if a little exhausting. We somehow found ourselves doing a four city tour (Paris-Rouen-Brighton-London) in the space of eight days, which would be more than enough even without a just-turned-two year old in the party, and a partner with a dodgy back. And Paris isn't the most child-friendly of cities, so there was plenty of exercise carrying luggage and pushchairs up and down most escalator-free Metro stations for example, in the hot hot heat. So great fun, but it's nice to be back at work which is kind of relaxing by comparison!

[ianmac]

Originally Posted by Nick (Scotweb)

The Manley Richardson kilt is a totally different ball game. It is not only hand-sewn and hand-made in the most traditional way by some of the most experienced kiltmakers in Scotland. But customers are enabled, nay encouraged, to become co-creators of their own kilt in a bespoke process that goes far beyond what most kiltmakers can offer. The touches such as embroidered linings and embossed buckles and straps are just the icing on the cake. The real difference is that the kilt's owner can ask for practically any custom finish they want, and if it's physically possible they'll get it, usually at no extra charge because it's being hand-made for you already.

This is not my experience of ordering a Manley Richardson kilt from Scotweb!
I am on a diet (but must order now due to lead times) so I requested the adjusters to be placed at the maximum size so that all adjustments would reduce the waist size. I thought this a reasonable request and that it would give me a few inches by which to reduce the waist size.

The reply was "Unfortunately we are not able to accommodate your sizing request as kilts are made to the second tightest fitting. Should you require this to be a different measurement, we would need to specify a different waist size. Please confirm the sizes required. We will place your order on hold pending your further instruction."

So rather than attend to my simple request they insist that I pick a number...
How bespoke is that!

Any comments please Nick?

[Nick Fiddes]

Hi ianmac,

I'm just back from holiday this morning, and catching up! But I gather from our retail team that this little bit of malcommunication has now been sorted out. But please let me know if there's anything you're still unsure about...

For the benefit of others, the reply quoted from our customer advisor was intended to be helpful, but could perhaps have been more carefully phrased. We can of course accommodate any sizing requested. But we still see it as our responsibility to advise the customer if a better solution may be possible. In this case we wished to point out that actually making the kilt to the last hole could result in it lying not quite as well (while used there) as were we to make it to the second tightest whilst adjusting the sizing. But I accept the tone of the response should have been rounded out to sound more advisory than it probably does, so we've discussed this in the office.