[M. A. C. Newsome]

Just for what it's worth, since this is a tartan I designed for David, you can find it listed on the Scottish Tartans Authority web site by doing a search for "Dove" in the "tartan name" field in their search engine:
http://www.tartansauthority.com/Web/...rchintroc2.asp

You can also search by tartan number 7261, and that should take you right there.

I just mention this because the only "public list" that I'm aware of which Brian Wilton (STA director) has any control over is the one on the STA site, and it is listed there.

It is also listed in the National Tartan Register.
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tar...s.aspx?ref=966

It is listed as a "Personal" tartan by the STA, but as a "Name" tartan in the National Register. The reason for this is that the category of "Name" is something that was come up with as the National Register was forming.

The reason is this: what do you do when someone designs (or has designed) a tartan for his surname, for use by all of the name, but there is no "clan chief" or head of name to authorize the tartan? Strictly speaking, it can't be recorded as an official "clan" tartan without such approval. "Personal" tartan seems to be a better fit because the individual is submitting the tartan as a personal initiative.

Yet that also seems less than satisfactory, because some personal tartans are truly intended just for use by that person, and no one else. So the practice of the STA had been to record such tartans under the category of "personal" yet include in the notes a statement that the individual responsible for the tartan wishes the tartan to be worn by any and all of the name, indicating that the intent is not strictly for his/her personal use.

When the National Register was formed, the category of "Name" tartans was introduced for those tartans intended to be used by any and all of the name, but without the approval of a head of family such as a clan chief, etc.

Anyway, that long explanation is just to explain why you find the tartan listed under "personal" in one database and "name" in the other. This is my understanding from many conversations with Brian Wilton during the formation of the National Register, in any case.

The Scotweb web site is rather unique in that it is a retail site that attempt to show a full listing of all available tartans (based on the STA Index) including those that are custom weaves. Most sites (inlcuding our museum gift shop site) that offer custom weaving services simply include a statement such as "if you need a tartan not offered from stock we'd be happy to have it woven for you," and don't bother listing the thousands of tartans that are on record, let alone picture them! Scotweb attempts to show them all. With so many, it's no small wonder that they miss one every now and again.

I remember that it was some time before the X Marks the Scot tartan was listed on their site, and that was only after someone pointed out to Nick that it wasn't showing up.

I'm sure that now Nick is aware of this one not being included, it will show up on their site soon enough. :-)

[Nick Fiddes]

The reason I used the phrase public lists, is that as well as Scotweb's reformatting of the STA data (which we have gone to a lot of work to link to fabrics available from the main mills, as well as offering as special weave) we (wearing my STA governor's hat) have been actively exploring licensing the STA database to other approved third parties. So it's this 'more widely published' level I was meaning. And the point was that we've not just missed it, but it's not in the lists we now use. (And by the way, even the database on the STA site is not the full STA list - there are further arcane levels of academic and obscure and illegitimate recordings that aren't published there either.)

Otherwise that's not a bad summary Matt. But despite having sat on the steering group of the new Register myself, where all this was discussed and decided, I must admit I remain a bit confused myself about how these categories now intertwine. I don't think that's just my stupidity. As STA representatives, Brian and I thought we'd agreed one outcome with the Register team. But the reality that emerged was not exactly as we'd expected. This has been the focus of let's call it active debate since. And, well, discussions continue. I think that's all I should say on a public forum.

[davedove]

Originally Posted by Highland Logan

Just a shot in the dark, but should this have not been a PM to Nick, or an email to Scotsweb? This doesen't seem like a "open to the public" type of question.

Frank

Originally Posted by ronstew

Sure, it is of general interest. Dave's post is a request for information of a sort that other users might find of value.

Originally Posted by Highland Logan

It looks like a personal question to a business owner, and that never involves anyone other than the customer and the business. We have all seen someone take a business owner to task here when it sould have been between them, and it quite often ends in a troll fest. If I have a business question for Matt Newsome, should he have to respond to 5 or 6 other people who want to get in on it? Customer service is between 2 people who plan to exchange money... all others have no right to get involved and should not exspect to be able to.

It's probably the nature of internet postings, but I wasn't intending to make a complaint here. I would do that through email. I have had generally positive dealings with Nick and Scotweb.

This was just a general question about something that affected me and doubtless would affect others as well.

Now that Nick has provided an explanation and a possible work-around solution, I can start shopping.

[Nick Fiddes]

Cheers Dave - I hadn't read it as a complaint either, so no insult taken! Thanks for pointing it out.

Would you like us to list it for public sale? We'd be happy to if you'd like this.

[davedove]

Well, now that they have included my tartan, there are all sorts of products I can shop for now. I'm thinking of a set of the military trews.

I'm not sure this is a good thing for my finances though.