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  1. #11
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    Wishing I would have had this at hand when I was a therapist at a mental health agency who decided I couldn't wear kilts...distracting...grieved and won, but still would have been nice to have such a paper to pass on.
    Ol' Macdonald himself, a proud son of Skye and Cape Breton Island
    Lifetime Member STA. Two time winner of Utilikiltarian of the Month.
    "I'll have a kilt please, a nice hand sewn tartan, 16 ounce Strome. Oh, and a sporran on the side, with a strap please."

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by O'Searcaigh View Post


    1. This statement is made in the Enchiridion or “handbook of Epictetus” (a handbook for living). {See: (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchiridion_of_Epictetus
    (2) http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html }. It presents some of the basic principles and teachings of Stoic philosophy.
    I love this text. The classical philosophers are my favourite of all the philosophers. Partly because of their philosophy and partly because it's, for the most part, written in Greek; the greatest of all the languages.. in my opinion, of course. Stoic philosophy, in particular, is one of my favourites. I'm glad you mentioned it. It doesn't seem to get a lot of attention these days. The general western population seem to have a fixation on being able to control every part of their lives, which makes classical Stoicism hard to digest for some.

    Excellent article. What you have said can be applied in so many different ways, not just to kilt-wearing.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by adempsey10 View Post
    I love this text. The classical philosophers are my favourite of all the philosophers. Partly because of their philosophy and partly because it's, for the most part, written in Greek; the greatest of all the languages.. in my opinion, of course. Stoic philosophy, in particular, is one of my favourites. I'm glad you mentioned it. It doesn't seem to get a lot of attention these days. The general western population seem to have a fixation on being able to control every part of their lives, which makes classical Stoicism hard to digest for some.

    Excellent article. What you have said can be applied in so many different ways, not just to kilt-wearing.
    Thank you for your kind comments. I of course agree re: the practical value of the ancient Greek philosophers -- both academic (Plato, Aristotle) and the "non-academic" (Skeptics, Stoics etc). If I had my way, I'd make the Enchiridion required reading for everyone -- I frequently did make it required for many of my philosophy courses for which the students actually thanked me for doing so. I also "prescribed" it for many of my patients/clients. Not a more practical or succinct "handbook" anywhere. And yes, far beyond (but interestingly including) kilt-wearing. "There are things within our control and things not within our control..." -- knowing which are which is the beginning of at least some degree of wisdom; not to even try to know is just plain foolish! Like Jock Scot's signature line says: "Life is hard; its even harder if you're stupid? (John Wayne) Thanks again for your kind response.
    Last edited by O'Searcaigh; 30th May 13 at 12:14 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by O'Searcaigh View Post
    Thank you for your kind comments. I of course agree re: the practical value of the ancient Greek philosophers -- both academic (Plato, Aristotle) and the "non-academic" (Skeptics, Stoics etc). If I had my way, I'd make the Enchiridion required reading for everyone -- I frequently did make it required for many of my philosophy courses for which the students actually thanked me for doing so. I also "prescribed" it for many of my patients/clients. Not a more practical or succinct "handbook" anywhere. And yes, far beyond (but interestingly including) kilt-wearing. "There are things within our control and things not within our control..." -- knowing which are which is the beginning of at least some degree of wisdom; not to even try to know is just plain foolish! Like Jock Scot's signature line says: "Life is hard; its even harder if you're stupid? (John Wayne) Thanks again for your kind response.


    Sorry to get off topic but I just had to share this. I'm a passionate classicist, and like any good classicist I've had a little too much red wine tonight. Anytime I get to reference anything from 400 AD or before I get a little giddy. This is my favourite quote from stoic philosophy from the philosopher emperor, Marcus Aurelius.

    "Everything that happens is as normal and expected as the spring rose or the summer fruit; this is true of sickness, death, slander, intrigue, and all the other things that delight or trouble foolish people." (I PCed it a little by changing men to people).


    Cheers!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by adempsey10 View Post
    Sorry to get off topic but I just had to share this. I'm a passionate classicist, and like any good classicist I've had a little too much red wine tonight. Anytime I get to reference anything from 400 AD or before I get a little giddy. This is my favourite quote from stoic philosophy from the philosopher emperor, Marcus Aurelius.

    "Everything that happens is as normal and expected as the spring rose or the summer fruit; this is true of sickness, death, slander, intrigue, and all the other things that delight or trouble foolish people." (I PCed it a little by changing men to people).

    Cheers!
    When I was in graduate school I found that I could speak French much better after a few glasses of red wine. I too have a lot of favorite classical philosophical quotes and Marcus Aurelius is an excellent source. However, I wrote my dissertation on the Scottish philosopher David Hume from whom I also have several, one of which is: "Be a philosopher but amidst all your philosophy, be still a man." BTW: I too pc'd the Epictetus quote in the article. I'm pretty sure he meant "humans" by "men" but....??? Thanks again for your interest.
    Last edited by O'Searcaigh; 3rd June 13 at 05:43 PM. Reason: spelling correction

  6. The Following User Says 'Aye' to O'Searcaigh For This Useful Post:


  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by O'Searcaigh View Post
    When I was in graduate school I found that I could speak French much better after a few glasses of red wine.
    I have heard that many times and I can tell you that there are two easy reasons I have witnessed. Normally it's one or the other.
    1. You don't feel as anxious about using a foreign language as without the wine (kiltwearing might help with that too). Your French is as good or bad as before, but you might take away something from the conversation.
    2. You had one glass to many and you THINK you speak French better than normal. Your French is as good or probably even worse than normal.

    I don't drink so I have to wear a kilt to improve my language skills

    When talking about greek philosophers I'm not sure if by men they meant men or humans but from the little I know I think it is quite possible that they meant men. Unfortunately I've crashed my TARDIS and without her my greek can't even be helped by permanent kilt-wearing.

  8. #17
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    Do we know if Epictetus/Arrian wrote in regard to andras or anthropon? viros or hominem? The second usage can be translated "people/humans/humankind" without feeling that PC is involved, can't it? The first usage benefits from late C20-ese. At least, that's how I remember it, in a class in the Muniment Room with the professor of Latin, or (shames me to recall) nodding off in the front row of a 9am lecture with the professor of Greek that all my class-mates ducked.
    Last edited by Grizzled Ian; 4th June 13 at 01:13 AM. Reason: Finger strayed too close to the touch-screen after just one sentence.
    Grizzled Ian
    XMTS teaches much about formal kilt wear, but otherwise,
    ... the kilt is clothes, what you wear with it should be what you find best suits you and your lifestyle. (Anne the Pleater)
    "Sometimes, it is better not to know the facts" (Father Bill)

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzled Ian View Post
    Do we know if Epictetus/Arrian wrote in regard to andras or anthropon? viros or hominem? The second usage can be translated "people/humans/humankind" without feeling that PC is involved, can't it? The first usage benefits from late C20-ese. At least, that's how I remember it, in a class in the Muniment Room with the professor of Latin, or (shames me to recall) nodding off in the front row of a 9am lecture with the professor of Greek that all my class-mates ducked.
    Anthropos is definitely a collective term, even though it is a masculine word. It is often used diminutively to refer to slaves. In an abstract sense, it is used to refer to mankind. When referring to a specific individual, it usually means that person was a slave/servant or nurse maid. Homo (hominem) usually refers to all mankind. Viros technically means hero but is usually attributed to the male gender. Anir (andras) is sometime used for both sexes but mostly for just men.

  10. #19
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    It was 17th-19th century translators who translated all four terms as man/men (the height of patriarchal society). The tradition persists to some degree nowadays. Even our English word man comes from old high German meaning human. Wirman (vir + man) was for males and woman for females. Man on its own was at one time used only to refer to all people.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by adempsey10 View Post
    Anthropos is definitely a collective term, even though it is a masculine word. It is often used diminutively to refer to slaves. In an abstract sense, it is used to refer to mankind. When referring to a specific individual, it usually means that person was a slave/servant or nurse maid. Homo (hominem) usually refers to all mankind. Viros technically means hero but is usually attributed to the male gender. Anir (andras) is sometime used for both sexes but mostly for just men.
    I think that some people might disagree with anthropos being used for specific females (check here)

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