Bogus commercial heraldry....

[sirdaniel1975]

About 15 years ago (1993) when I was in High School, our school band had a trip to England. We stayed in London for about 7 or 8 days. My grandmother was from Manchester, England so as a result I started to become interested in my family ancestry. Around that time I became interested in my Scottish blood after my Grandparents had returned from a trip to Nova Scotia. My grandfather's parents were from Glasgow, Scotland.

When I was in England, one of our scheduled events was an Elizabethan Banquet. It's a mock banquet where actors dress up as period characters. Namely Elizabeth I and jests and minstrels. Surrounding the wall of this great banquet hall were the heraldry (real heraldry mind you) of historical persons from England. I spent about an hour walking around the hall visually studying the heraldry. It was at this time that I was wondering about my family coat of arms. At that time I was completely unaware that I/we had none. I was only 17 years old at the time.

Lets go forward in time a wee bit to 1998. Lets just say a certain person (I'll call him Matt) set me straight on a lot of issues. Matt once said, "Coat of Arms in the British Isles belong to individuals and not families." I began to feel as though I had been lied to most of my life about a great many things. I decided that I would make it my Life's mission to correct this.

A while ago I was doing a little investigation to acquire evidence of my own to convince some folks on how bogus most of the "Family Coat of Arms" dealers are. My surname is Williamson, and here is my pictorial evidence:











Notice that all of these differ in some way. If they are family name coat of arms why is that. Each one of these are from a different vendor and is what they would sell to any Williamson who purchases one from them.

Now I challenge you, those who still believe you have a family coat of arms.
research what all these vendors are selling under your name.


House of Names


All Family Crests


Heraldry


Family Coat of Arms


Crest


Family Crest


Authentic Coat of Arms

What you will realize (I hope you will), is that each one of these places are vendors and their images differ for (c) reasons.

For some good links on Scottish Heraldry:


Scottish Heraldry - by Matt Newsome


Court of the Lord Lyon


The Heraldry Society of Scotland

[JerseyLawyer]

This sort of "bucket shop" heraldry has been around for a long time. I always roll my eyes when I see the same booth at games and festivals.

As for why they differ, I would suspect either bad renderings, or choosing a different Williams, since all they really do is look for the last person with that surname to get arms, then slap it into their book.

[Finn]

I actually paid $20 to a mall kiosk in the '80's for a spurious computer-generated crest and two paragraph history.
According to the "history" my family had been respected Talmudists in Turkey before emigrating to Germany. Somehow we became Protestant.
The crest was a green field with an axe in a stump.
It just didn't jibe.
I have also seen the family name with "von" in front. We weren't Prussian or noble.

[Finn]

I checked several of the above sites. One has the name, but with a false history (I know through family research) & completely different crest. Another has the same crest but a different name (though similiar).
Thanks, SirDaniel.

[sirdaniel1975]

from JerseyLawyer This sort of "bucket shop" heraldry has been around for a long time. I always roll my eyes when I see the same booth at games and festivals.

I roll my eyes as well. The thing that bothers me most at times, is when they have the longest line.

from JerseyLawyer As for why they differ, I would suspect either bad renderings, or choosing a different Williams, since all they really do is look for the last person with that surname to get arms, then slap it into their book.

I have suspected the same thing as well. If they are not using someones personal arms, they are merely altering them or fabricating their own.

I believe it is one of the "Rick Steves goes to Europe episodes: Scotland" on PBS, while in Scotland and I believe Glasgow he attends a Burns supper.
It happens to be a Williamson Manor, one of the young men wears a Gunn tartan feileadh-mor during the celebration. Perhaps one of the very few Williamson's who actually has a Coat of Arms. And I'm not referring to the young man in the belted plaid. I'm referring to his father.

from Finn I checked several of the above sites. One has the name, but with a false history (I know through family research) & completely different crest. Another has the same crest but a different name (though similiar).
Thanks, SirDaniel.

Your Welcome. I'm glad you only spent $20. Some dish out a whole lot more.

[Panache]

A very good thread. I know that this topic has come on XMTS a few times* in the years I have been here. Thanks for giving a clear example of how much trust one should put in these places.

Let the buyer beware.

Cheers

Jamie



* Everytime It makes me think of the "Knightly Murders" episode of Kolchak: The Night Stalker where Kolchak visits a bucket shop.

[Arlen]

One of the big problems is that they don't seem to differentiate between things like Heraldic arms and Clan crests let alone explain mottos, war cries or bucklers. It's all just 'The picture your family uses!'
A lot of people are getting spoon-fed nonsense, but they are happy to have it and display it.

[ccga3359]

The Harmsworth has what is described a wolf cub, bear cup or a leopard on the family crest. Looks like just some big black blob that never really looked like any of the above animals. Don't know my history back further than my Grandparents, sometimes I'm curious but it won't keep me up at night.

[Finn]

Yep. I learned my lesson with the mall experience.
I know that my family were religious dissidents and came to the Colonies ca. 1720-25. That has been enough.

[george7]

Most of those websites forget to take into account different sects with the same name. The English, Scots, and Irish all had different groups that appeared throughout time with the same surname, but no relation.