[CDNSushi]

JolyStNicholas posed a question regarding the appropriateness of wearing another clan's tartan, and that thread (http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/w...494/index.html) is now 17, going on 18 pages long within a matter of days.

I did not want to enter the fray there, so chose instead to start a new thread here with a simple, specific question that is, however, directly related to the above.

(Note, I am perfectly happy wearing kilts and not being even vaguely Scottish so this is by no means necessarily a practical question), but more as an academic exercise, I just wonder -- knowing full-well that the clan system of ancient Scotland has ceased to exist, yet remnants still persist to this day, is it in fact, actually possible to be "adopted" into a clan? By that I mean more than just becoming an associate member of a clan society (which is a social club)? I mean, just like a friend of mine went to court to get legally and officially adopted by his adoptive parents, does such an equivalent exist in the sense of the (modern) Scottish clan?

I realize also that association through marriage might be such a scenario. But once again, I'm thinking of other situations.

Just wondering.... (But this question has been in my mind for quite some time).

Cheers,

Jim

[Bugbear]

Originally Posted by CDNSushi

JolyStNicholas posed a question regarding the appropriateness of wearing another clan's tartan, and that thread (http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/w...494/index.html) is now 17, going on 18 pages long within a matter of days. ...

Sorry about that.

I have read, in a few threads, that one could be adopted into a clan. Don't remember the term for that, but also one would be swaring loilty to the chief of that clan.

However, I have also read, here and there, of people writing to the chief of a clan and asking permission to wear the tartan.

I'm sure there's much more information.

[JSFMACLJR]

One could come within the protection of a certain clan by a bond of manrent.
Such a bond was made by an inferior giving homage to a superior--in this case the chief--in exchange for protection. The inferior would be bound by the same obligations as other clansmen had to their chief.

Such bonds are still made within some clans, but they really have no
"teeth" and are just sort of a way to become affiliated with a clan.

[Phil]

I can't think of any particularly good reason why you would want to be "adopted" by a clan other than the obvious one of making your wallet a little lighter each year paying the subscriptions. Of course there may be ones such as Buchanan which operate as benevolent societies to a degree but you would have to be a born and bred member for that.

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by Phil

I can't think of any particularly good reason why you would want to be "adopted" by a clan other than the obvious one of making your wallet a little lighter each year paying the subscriptions. Of course there may be ones such as Buchanan which operate as benevolent societies to a degree but you would have to be a born and bred member for that.

Phil only speaks for himself. While some clan societies do fit the stereotype that Phil describes here, it isn't fair to tag all of them with the same generalisation. You only get out of a society, be it a clan or other, what you put into it.

Some clan societies here in the colonies offer genealogical records and databases compiled by volunteers. Others offer social gatherings at local games and festivals. Still others work with local charities and civic organisations, regardless of whether one was "born and bred".

And Phil, you would always be welcome to come to one of "my" clan societies' meetings or events -- perhaps you wouldn't be so hasty in your judgements after you got to know some of us.

Todd

[CDNSushi]

Thanks for the thoughts thus far gentlemen... To reiterate, though: JSFMACLJR: you seem to be referring to a historical situation (which is fine -- I like history) but it doesn't seem to me that it would happen nowadays. As for you Phil, you obviously speaking of the clan societies today. Without commenting on whether or not your position is tenable, let me ask this as a followup question: Is there such thing as a clan outside its clan society?

[cajunscot]

Some scholars estimate that only 25-30% of all Scottish surnames have a connection to Highland clan, so in reality, your friend would in some ways do better to join a St. Andrew's/Caledonian Society. Some (but not all) of these societies have "open" memberships in that anyone with an interest in Scotland may join as members.

For those who choose that route, the district tartan is always an option, be it a national, provincial, state or another form of universal tartan, such as the Caledonia tartan.

Yours aye,

Todd

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by CDNSushi

Thanks for the thoughts thus far gentlemen... To reiterate, though: JSFMACLJR: you seem to be referring to a historical situation (which is fine -- I like history) but it doesn't seem to me that it would happen nowadays.

While the idea of a Bond of Manrent seems quaint, I would imagine that it would be up to individual chief to choose to accept such a document. I actually have an example version in a book in my personal library.

T.

[cessna152towser]

Is there such thing as a clan outside its clan society?

There are a few Scottish clans who still have a chieftain and a formal organisation, but many clans such as my own have no formal organisation here in Scotland but are now represented by clan societies, often based in the "New World". The clan society for my surname, to which I belong, is now long established, is American based but has worldwide membership, holds regular social events, and has an excellent genealogical database. Such a clan society has no legal status here in Scotland and where there is no chieftain to regulate matters there can sometimes be more than one clan society formed under the same family name, precisely what has happened with my own clan where a more recently formed breakaway group is purporting to represent the family name at the proposed clan pageant in Edinburgh in July of this year.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by CDNSushi

As for you Phil, you obviously speaking of the clan societies today. Without commenting on whether or not your position is tenable, let me ask this as a followup question: Is there such thing as a clan outside its clan society?

Sorry if I came across as a bit cynical but I don't wish to denigrate anyone's harmless enjoyment in joining a clan society. I think there still are a few genuine clans although how active they are I'm afraid I can't tell as I have no interest in that direction but maybe others can tell you. My impression, though, is that many are fairly recent in origin and mostly based in North America and, while they do have members in other countries, tend to be mainly America-centric in their activities, get-togethers etc.