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12-27-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Phogfan86  The Mackays and Gunns were not-so-friendly neighbors. | Their relationship waxed and wained over the years. A number of them did serve in Mackay's Regiment during the Thirty Year's War for the Swedes.
The Gunns really didn't get along with anyone too well, but they really didn't like the Keiths. In fact, it wasn't until 1976 when a "peace treaty" was signed by the Commander of the Gunns, Sir Iain Gunn of Banniskirk, and the Chief of the Kieths.
T.
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12-28-2008, 05:49 AM
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I think it would be more accurate to say that some named MacKay were part of the Clan Donald -- it would NOT be accurate to say that the Clan MacKay itself was a sept of the MacDonalds. Remember, what clan one belonged to really had very little to do with surname and a lot to do with geography.
I find that the Clan Donald web site has much more information than most when it comes to explaining sept relationships. They do, indeed, list MacKay as a Clan Donald surname, with these notes: Quote: |
Only those from Islay, Kintyre, Antrim or N. Uist. Clan Donald MacKays derive from: Gaelic Mac Aoidh - "son of Hugh". From Kintyre, to Islay. Clan Donald SOUTH. Some to N. Uist in 17th cen - Clan Donald NORTH. No relationship at all to the Northern MacKays.
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12-28-2008, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Phogfan86 The Mackays and Gunns were not-so-friendly neighbors. | They became allies in 1585. Their combined forces defeated the Earl of Caithness at the Battle of Altgowne. Mostly by the patience of the Gunn Archers for the MacKay's released their arrows too soon.
During the year of 1585 the Gunn name was outlawed and the Earl of Caithness had dispatched a force to stop the Gunns and force them to answer for their constant fighting. During that time the Gunn came to the rescue of some MacKays where some of the Earl's men were stealing MacKay cattle. After that time there is no record of any conflict (at least that I can find) between the Gunns and the MacKays. The Gunns ended up in a service dept to the Sutherlands after they were defeated at Loch Broom during this conflict. The Gunss, MacKays, and Sutherlands were all Hanoverians during the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 "The Forty Five."
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12-28-2008, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome I think it would be more accurate to say that some named MacKay were part of the Clan Donald -- it would NOT be accurate to say that the Clan MacKay itself was a sept of the MacDonalds. Remember, what clan one belonged to really had very little to do with surname and a lot to do with geography.
I find that the Clan Donald web site has much more information than most when it comes to explaining sept relationships. They do, indeed, list MacKay as a Clan Donald surname, with these notes: | Agreed, the name MacKay = Son of Kay (in the most basic form). Just like; not all MacDonalds are part of clan Donald.
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12-28-2008, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cajunscot Their relationship waxed and wained over the years. A number of them did serve in Mackay's Regiment during the Thirty Year's War for the Swedes.
The Gunns really didn't get along with anyone too well, but they really didn't like the Keiths. In fact, it wasn't until 1976 when a "peace treaty" was signed by the Commander of the Gunns, Sir Iain Gunn of Banniskirk, and the Chief of the Kieths.
T. | The CGSNA (Texas Branch) used to have a photographic record of that event posted online. Very cool ceremony. What's very interesting, is that very often today the clan tents of Gunn and Keith will be placed right next to each other at the Highland games. I have observed this several times and the clan tents were not set up in alphabetical order.
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12-28-2008, 09:48 AM
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Thank you for the history gentlemen. It will help me as I continue to research.
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12-28-2008, 10:14 AM
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Having slept on it, I see a couple of you beat me to it.
The Gunns and Mackays ran hot and cold, but it was the Keiths that really got the Gunns' charged up.
The first clan affiliation of which I became aware for my family was Gunn, so I did a little bit of reading. It's pretty safe to say that they didn't work and play well with others. From what I read, it sounds like they were a chihuahua that wanted to be a rottweiler -- a small clan with limited resources that tended to bite off more than they could chew when it came to trying to compete with their enemies.
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12-28-2008, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sirdaniel1975 The Gunns ended up in a service dept to the Sutherlands... | That's funny! Did they wear blue smocks like Wal-Mart greeters?
Frank
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12-28-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Phogfan86 The Mackays and Gunns were not-so-friendly neighbors. |
I'm a Gunn (among others) and my wife is a Mackay. We used to say we were doing our part to bring the two clans together.
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12-28-2008, 11:52 AM
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Kudos to Sir William! I'm sure once the families put their dirks away, it was a lovely ceremony.
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