[skauwt]

Originally Posted by wvpiper

I don't mean to be obtuse, or argumentative, but isn't it already known that peoples moved back and forth? Didn't we already know that the Scoti came from Dalraida (Northern Ireland) Is this DNA evidence, that the Scottish Celts and Irish Celts are related, really any surprise?

yeah i agree with you that the scottish celts and irish celts are related considering the way they knew all the sea routes and where master seagoers kinda says it all really , and to just go on about the 5th century as if it was the only time these nations intermingled its been going on for a few thousand years if not alot longer and still to this day in some aspects ,
when you stand at Knockagh hill not far from newtownabbey ireland and look out into the distance this is what you see ....
portpatrick in scotland ......if i was a wee irishman ( like the future father in law ) and lived back then and saw that land over there id think to myself "i fancy popping over there to see whats what and who i can trade with and perhaps suss out these wild haired folk incase they decide to come over and see me sometime " then before you know a few generations later youve moved up the coast and taa daa intermingleing

[gilmore]

Originally Posted by wvpiper

I don't mean to be obtuse, or argumentative, but isn't it already known that peoples moved back and forth? Didn't we already know that the Scoti came from Dalraida (Northern Ireland) Is this DNA evidence, that the Scottish Celts and Irish Celts are related, really any surprise?

As I read the story, what makes it newsworthy is the fourth sentence, "Scientists said the study was the first demonstration of a significant Irish genetics component in Scots' ancestry." (Emphasis added)

[wyldathart]

Interesting topic. I think mother nature conspired to bring about sources of DNA in combination with Environment to create a very voracious and hardy folks. In my case my ancestors come from Renfrewshire and an ancestor who was Norse.

[sutherlands]

Yes but is there such a thing as scottish DNA?

Obviously differant groups of people may have unique DNA composition. However, I would not sya there is such a thing as 'scottish' My DNA comes from my ancestors but that is not lateral. The fact that they are scottish is irrelevant.

I am willing to bet that it is unlikely that genetisists could tell apart an englishman from a scotsman. Most DNA tets can only differentiate between northern european, southern european, sub sharan african etc

Any thoughts on this ?

[slohairt]

I think the science, as a whole, is still in its infancy. I imagine years from now things will be made clearer; some long-held theories will be proven while others will be discredited. Distinguishing an Englishman from a Scotsman by DNA? I think it would depend where in the country their ancestors hailed from. I would even tentatively wager that there is a considerable difference between a Lowlander and someone from the Hebrides.

[sutherlands]

Originally Posted by slohairt

I think the science, as a whole, is still in its infancy. I imagine years from now things will be made clearer; some long-held theories will be proven while others will be discredited. Distinguishing an Englishman from a Scotsman by DNA? I think it would depend where in the country their ancestors hailed from. I would even tentatively wager that there is a considerable difference between a Lowlander and someone from the Hebrides.

I dont believe there is that much differance between a lowlander and a highlander these days, especially with cross migraiton that has been prevalent since the industrial revalution. Most scots in glasgow have highland last names. There is little differance in culture aswell.

[slohairt]

I don't really know. Like I said, I think the studies are far from complete. Cross migration is/was common, but not everywhere. My own family lived in the same Irish county for many centuries and only moved here (Canada) recently.

[gilmore]

Originally Posted by sutherlands

Yes but is there such a thing as scottish DNA?

Obviously differant groups of people may have unique DNA composition. However, I would not sya there is such a thing as 'scottish' My DNA comes from my ancestors but that is not lateral. The fact that they are scottish is irrelevant.

I am willing to bet that it is unlikely that genetisists could tell apart an englishman from a scotsman. Most DNA tets can only differentiate between northern european, southern european, sub sharan african etc

Any thoughts on this ?

Rather than making wild and subjective statements about DNA, it's preferable to get the facts, and the best source for an introduction to genetic genealogy online that I know of is the FAQ at www.familytreedna.com

Briefly, there are three kinds of DNA testing used in this context: Y DNA that men inherit from their fathers, mitochondrial DNA that both men and women inherit from their mothers, and autosomal DNA testing which is used to determine which part of the world a person's ancestors came from.

All three of these could show Scottish ancestry, albeit in different ways.

[wvpiper]

Originally Posted by gilmore

As I read the story, what makes it newsworthy is the fourth sentence, "Scientists said the study was the first demonstration of a significant Irish genetics component in Scots' ancestry." (Emphasis added)

Sorry, but I don't see it as newsworthy. It's common knowledge, proving it with DNA doesn't make it any more significant, in my eye.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by wvpiper

Sorry, but I don't see it as newsworthy. It's common knowledge, proving it with DNA doesn't make it any more significant, in my eye.

The trouble is that much of what has been assumed to be "common knowledge" concerning migrations and origins has been shown to be myth.

For instance, it was "common knowledge" until the latter part of the 20th century that the Anglo-Saxons had driven all the Britons (Celts) out of what was to become England into what was to become Wales, thus leaving the English as being almost entirely descended from the Anglo-Saxon Invaders. However, this has been shown to be a myth, as firstly archaeology and then population genetics has conclusively shown that the present day English population is still predominently descended from the Britons (Celts).

It is therefore instructive to know for certain that the arrival of the Dalriada Scots from Ireland was definitely not a myth.

For anyone who is interested in the origins of the peoples of the British Isles, I can thoroughly recommend the book "The Origins of the British" by Professor Stephen Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer not only uses Y-chromosome and mtDNA markers to determine origins but he also approximately dates the migrations using Phylogeography and exact gene match techniques.