Very early tartan suit?

**Cavebear58** · 9th October 08, 02:04 PM

We stayed a night in a Chateau in France last month and the Contesse who owns it had a gallery of pictures of early ancestors of her late husband. In particular there was one who was wearing a tartan jacket which was something I had never seen before. From the rest of the pictures, I suspect that he lived sometime in the latter 1500s to late 1700s. I tried to take a picture but the lighting was terrible so here's the best I could do I'm afraid.

At first sight it looks like a great kilt or a fly plaid, but look closely and you'll see what look like a row of buttons on the sleeve.

Can anyone (esp Matthew <grin>) give any insights into this?

Thanks
Graham.

**Woodsheal** · 9th October 08, 02:58 PM

Can't see it too clearly, but it looks very similar to this portrait. It's got to be the same guy! He's wearing a tartan coat and waistcoat w/ a belted plaid. The object he is grasping is the butt of an all-steel scottish pistol:

The plate is from History of Highland Dress, J. Telfer Dunbar.

**Mair of the Tribe of Mar** · 9th October 08, 03:22 PM

It does look like the exact same picture, except for the hand position. That's a little odd.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 9th October 08, 03:38 PM

The two pictures do indeed look similar. I'd be willing to guess that the one you saw was a copy of (or at least inspired by) the Grant of Lurg picture from the 1760s.

On it's own, though, I can't really see details from the painting well enought to make any comments about the clothing. I do know that tartan coathardies were worn on the continant in the latter Middle Ages, so it wouldn't surprise me to see tartan cloth being worn in non-Highland dress attire. There was a lot of tartan being woven in France at one time, recall.

**Woodsheal** · 9th October 08, 03:44 PM

What IS clear in the painting is the lower part of his baldric (sword belt) and the pistol butt, both of which are mid-18th century styled. Also, it looks like a typical blue bonnet with a red band.

One of these portraits is definitely based upon the other...!

**Highlander31** · 9th October 08, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

...One of these portraits is definitely based upon the other...!

I agree, the paintings are remarkably similar.

**Cavebear58** · 10th October 08, 06:45 AM

Fantastic guys! You are staggering! Well done. I shall pass on the info to the Contessa.

Thank you very much.

Best wishes
Graham.

**Woodsheal** · 10th October 08, 02:24 PM

Here he is again! This time in a green tartan:
http://nms.scran.ac.uk/database/reco...-100-006-470-C

**puffer** · 10th October 08, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

What IS clear in the painting is the lower part of his baldric (sword belt) and the pistol butt, both of which are mid-18th century styled. Also, it looks like a typical blue bonnet with a red band.

...!

Woodsheal, Could you PLEASE ID the "pistol" The "BUTT" is one I have not seen before. nor have I been able to ID it from any of my references. Could it be a "fishtail" or "scroll" ramshorn variance ?? or ist the a poor artists rendition ??

Puffer

**Woodsheal** · 10th October 08, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by puffer

Woodsheal, Could you PLEASE ID the "pistol" The "BUTT" is one I have not seen before. nor have I been able to ID it from any of my references. Could it be a "fishtail" or "scroll" ramshorn variance ?? or ist the a poor artists rendition ??

Puffer

The "scroll butt" type steel pistol (or "dag") was popular from ca. 1690-1740, most famously made by the Caddells, and Campbells, of Doune. Here's a pic of an original: