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  1. #11
    Join Date
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    Far NW Corner of Washington State, USA (48° 45' 51.5808" N / -122° 30' 36.6228" W)
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    post deleted.
    Last edited by BoldHighlander; 27th January 11 at 02:21 AM. Reason: post deleted.
    [SIZE="2"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]T. E. ("TERRY") HOLMES[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]proud descendant of the McReynolds/MacRanalds of Ulster & Keppoch, Somerled & Robert the Bruce.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]"Ah, here comes the Bold Highlander. No @rse in his breeks but too proud to tug his forelock..." Rob Roy (1995)[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  2. #12
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    This is amazing. The most interesting is it makes me think what would be left in such an inventory for myself. I can't help but feel a lot more! We truly do live in wealthy times.

  3. #13
    Join Date
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    Metric

    I'm not sure of the age or history of measurements, but is it possible Peter that "Meeder" = Meter/Metre ?

  4. #14
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    2nd January 10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan's son View Post
    I'm not sure of the age or history of measurements, but is it possible Peter that "Meeder" = Meter/Metre ?
    I would very much doubt it. So much so in fact that I'd say impossible because the metric system was developed post 1791 at the behest of Louis XVI. This estate pre-dates that by more than 50 years and I assume that the term meeder was well established by 1737 if used in an official document.

    I've tried variations in both Scots and English including; mider, meader, meder etc but have come up blank. I think this will be one for Edinburgh university.

    Interestingly, the family own an old joined plaid that I'd roughly dated 1700-30. Wouldnt it be amazing if it were that.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    9th June 10
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    Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa
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    Interesting that the cloth was identified as being Dornich (and that this presumably indicates Doornik).
    I have often come across French name forms for Dutch-speaking towns (in the Netherlands, there is Bois-le-duc or s’Hertogenbosch, and in French Flanders there is Duinekerke, referred to by the French as Dunquerque), but it is unusual to come across a Dutch name for a French-speaking town – the place in question is Tournai, in Hainaut.
    The County of Holland had a controlling interest in Hainaut in the Middle Ages, before most of that region passed to the Dukes of Burgundy, since the Counts of Holland were lords of Hainaut, and referred to it as Henegouwen.
    This (and the commercial links between the Low Countries and Scotland) might account for the Dutch form.

    MacMillan of Rathdown’s suggestion that meeder might mean metre is a little out, historically, since the metre was only adopted in France following the Revolution.
    This inventory makes an interesting comparison with inventories I have seen of settlers who died at the Cape in the 17th and 18th centuries.
    Regards,
    Mike
    The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
    [Proverbs 14:27]

  6. #16
    Join Date
    14th August 07
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    Could meeder be madder? I've seen some spellings for madder that are way off, mayder, maider. Kinda wide guess, but since it's cloth that it's referring to, then it could possibly be the colour.

    vide? Hmmm. Latin origin for 'see'. All I got. ;)

    btw, first thing I thought of when I saw truss, was suspenders or corsets (men wore shaping garments too).

  7. #17
    Join Date
    17th December 07
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixiecat View Post
    Could meeder be madder? I've seen some spellings for madder that are way off, mayder, maider. Kinda wide guess, but since it's cloth that it's referring to, then it could possibly be the colour.
    Since madder is/was a common dye derived from the madder plant which grows throughout most of Europe. I tend to agree that it's probably referring to the colour RED, which would make sense if the plaid was a predominately red tartan. The coats of the British army were died with madder until sometime after the middle of the 19th century when madder red was synthesized in Germany. The colour is also known as madder rose (or pink) and is possibly the origin of the "pink" riding coats worn in the hunting field, although legend has it that these coats are called "pinks" after a Mr. Pink, the tailor who first produced them.
    Last edited by MacMillan of Rathdown; 27th January 11 at 10:30 AM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    22nd January 07
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    Morganton, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    Thinking about it we'd come to the same conclusion that truss probably meant trews.
    I shudder to imagine a "tartan truss"...

  9. #19
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixiecat View Post
    Could meeder be madder? I've seen some spellings for madder that are way off, mayder, maider. Kinda wide guess, but since it's cloth that it's referring to, then it could possibly be the colour.
    I too had wondered about meeder being madder. It's possible but I've been unable to find and other variation of madder that replaces the 'a' with 'e' nor any other record of this spelling.

    That does not of course mean that it could not be a variation of the word but I'm not convinced. Red had long been the generic word for a range of mid to dark shades in the red group. In Scots it was often pronounced and written as rid and I cannot imagine why a specific dyes source would necessarily have been used to describe a plaid.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    Since madder is/was a common dye derived from the madder plant which grows throughout most of Europe. I tend to agree that it's probably referring to the colour RED, which would make sense if the plaid was a predominately red tartan. The coats of the British army were died with madder until sometime after the middle of the 19th century when madder red was synthesized in Germany. The colour is also known as madder rose (or pink) and is possibly the origin of the "pink" riding coats worn in the hunting field, although legend has it that these coats are called "pinks" after a Mr. Pink, the tailor who first produced them.
    Madder was usually used for soldiers' tunics, Officers' and Sergeants' coats were dyes with cochineal which gave a brighter and more colour fast red.

    I've been involved in the analysis of a lot of C18th pieces of tartan and 99.9%of them were dyed with cochineal rather than madder. Both dye stuffs give a range of reds and there is no way that the compiler of the invertary (sic) would have known what, if indeed meeder was being used to mean red, would have been used to dye the colour.

    Without any other example of madder being used to mean red, plus the fact that none of the other tartan pieces or the Dornich are described by their overall colour, means that I remain unconvinced that meeder was being used to mean red.

    Finally, if the plaid that survives is the one mentioned, and there is strong circumstantial evidence to suggest that the subject of the inventary (sic) owned it, then it's even less likely that the term meeder referred to madder red as the red in the plaid is a dark cochineal dyed shade.

    Hopefully further research will turn something up to clarify the use of this unusual spelling.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    17th January 11
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    Berlin and Dresden, Germany
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    Truss: According to google books/etymological dictionary of scottish language a truss was a ribbon which ladies wore inside their clothes in order to tie up their petticoats,when working.
    In medicine it is a strap with pads to keep the hernia in place !!!!
    I, pesonally, would stick to the ladies.

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