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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    I figured it was pretty closely watched, but you never know. It really is a beauty.

    I'm a unfamiliar with British army uniforms of the period, and a web search turned up nothing... Was it suspended from the belt by the top 'clip'?

    Also, does anyone know that the actual 'purse' part of the bag would have been?

    You're right, Downunder Kilt, it would look splendid in brass.
    I'm pretty sure that is a ladies purse frame. Not a military sporran cantle.

  2. #22
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    As you have been Artificer, I have tried to do a web search for more info on the cantle. I have searched for highland soldiers in the Boer War and the only reference I can find to sporrans were white ones that had the affect of being a target for the boers to shoot at. The only pictures I could find of around that era were paintings of soldiers of the Black Wtach who were all wearing the horse hair sporran with what looks to be a leather cantle. I have been able to find a photo of what I believe to be a similar cantle with bag that was auctioned by a military auction house (see below)





    I am also posting a diagram that was posted in another thread, sorry I don't remember by whom, but they deserve the credit (has a similar shaped bag to that in the photos)



    I dont think the sporrans with the hangers have provision for a strap to be attatched to the cantle so you would use the hanger to attach to your kilt belt.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    Speaking of cantles, there's a silver 17th Lancers Boer War cantle closing in about 15 hours that looks THE BUSINESS!

    Unfortunately, it's a tad out of my price range
    I don't mean to be ignorant, but why would a trooper or officer of a regiment of lancers have a sporran as part of his uniform?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt View Post
    As you have been Artificer, I have tried to do a web search for more info on the cantle. I have searched for highland soldiers in the Boer War and the only reference I can find to sporrans were white ones that had the affect of being a target for the boers to shoot at. The only pictures I could find of around that era were paintings of soldiers of the Black Wtach who were all wearing the horse hair sporran with what looks to be a leather cantle. I have been able to find a photo of what I believe to be a similar cantle with bag that was auctioned by a military auction house (see below)





    I am also posting a diagram that was posted in another thread, sorry I don't remember by whom, but they deserve the credit (has a similar shaped bag to that in the photos)



    I dont think the sporrans with the hangers have provision for a strap to be attatched to the cantle so you would use the hanger to attach to your kilt belt.
    I suppose I was the one who posted that illustration a couple of years ago. It is from the "The Book of the Club of True Highlanders" published in two leather-bound volumes by CN McIntyre North in 1881.

    Rex

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR View Post
    I don't mean to be ignorant, but why would a trooper or officer of a regiment of lancers have a sporran as part of his uniform?
    Beats me. I'm just reporting based off the title on the auction.

    It might be an officers personal item. The original owner is named in the auction.
    All my research into the 17th (which is pretty minimal, and web-based) show nothing of the sort as part of their uniform.

    One way or the other, it's a gorgeous piece. And too rich for my wallet

    Downunder,
    there are MANY references to white parts (ie the chest) of the foreign service uniform being folded back, as it made a perfect target Good find on the other sporran with hanger!
    artificer Pronunciation: \r-ˈti-fə-sər, ˈr-tə-fə-sər\ : noun : 14th century :a skilled or artistic worker or craftsman
    Artificer Custom Sporrans
    *Home of the Original Kenneth MacLeay Sporran Project & Functional Brass Cantles*

  6. #26
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    21st May 08
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR View Post
    I don't mean to be ignorant, but why would a trooper or officer of a regiment of lancers have a sporran as part of his uniform?
    Makes one wonder, doesn't it, Sandy? No matter because the cantle on e-bay and the illustration posted by Downunder are examples of a chatelaine's belt purse and not sporrans at all. The latter one is quite crudely scratch-engraved, whilst the former may be silver plated cast brass, for all we know. Perhaps the seller is stretching the truth with provinance, description and construction, all three.

    Rex

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt View Post
    I have searched for highland soldiers in the Boer War and the only reference I can find to sporrans were white ones that had the affect of being a target for the boers to shoot at.


    I'd rather wear a white helmet in battle than a white sporran, thank you very much.
    "It's all the same to me, war or peace,
    I'm killed in the war or hung during peace."

  8. #28
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    Thanks for the clarification regarding a chatelaine's belt purse V sporran Thistledown. In both cases they have been advertised as sporrans, so it's good to know that they are a different beasts.

    I thought it was you that originally posted the diagram but was not 100% sure. Thankyou for putting out there originally

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt View Post
    Thanks for the clarification regarding a chatelaine's belt purse V sporran Thistledown. In both cases they have been advertised as sporrans, so it's good to know that they are a different beasts.

    I thought it was you that originally posted the diagram but was not 100% sure. Thankyou for putting out there originally
    There were only 80 of these books published and most went to the subscribers (a very impressive list), as you can imagine. I know where eleven of them are and one is in my own library . I have a memory of someone scanning both volumes to disc; must find out who and post a link if there is one.

    Rex

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThistleDown View Post
    There were only 80 of these books published and most went to the subscribers (a very impressive list), as you can imagine. I know where eleven of them are and one is in my own library . I have a memory of someone scanning both volumes to disc; must find out who and post a link if there is one.

    Rex
    Rex, theoretically Electric Scotland has a PDF copy available on their website, except that I cannot seem to open their site at www.electicscotland.com. A Google search sets forth their website listing as follows:

    THE BOOK OF THE CLUB OF TRUE HIGHLANDERS
    The Book of the Club of True Highlanders 2 vols. A record of the Dress, arms, customs, arts and science; of the Highlanders. Compiled from printed and MS ...
    www.electricscotland.com/HISTORY/club/index.htm - CachedThe Book of the Club of True Hig
    The Book of the Club of True Highlanders Volume 1. Read this volume as a .pdf file (32Mb). 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ...
    http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...ub/volume1.htm - Cached - Similar
    Hide more results from www.electricscotland.com

    Does anyone know whether that site is down? I can't seem to access it no matter through what means I try. Thanks, BYU
    "Before two notes of the theme were played, Colin knew it was Patrick Mor MacCrimmon's 'Lament for the Children'...Sad seven times--ah, Patrick MacCrimmon of the seven dead sons....'It's a hard tune, that', said old Angus. Hard on the piper; hard on them all; hard on the world." Butcher's Broom, by Neil Gunn, 1994 Walker & Co, NY, p. 397-8.

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