[Brian K]

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

Does Brown's portrait really strike you as "rich guy's" garb? It looks like a rather plain wool jacket and waistcoat to my eyes....

I would say, perhaps, it is the "bearing" of the subject, rather than the apparel, that could be construed as aristocratic - appropriate if the reputations of the Brown brothers is deserved. In any event, I think he appears dressed in the understated manner that most of the clan chiefs and other members of the aristocracy pictured here at X Marks in their every day dress. I would assume that most of those sitting for MacLeay brought out their best for the portraits. Many of the outfits certainly would have been impractical or uncomfortable for normal day to day activities.

Regards,

Brian

[ThistleDown]

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

If Ken is indeed seeking NON-kilted authenticity (aside: then why bring it up in a kilt forum?!), affordable period dress can be had here:


http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg11b.html

And here:

http://www.gentlemansemporium.com/me...n_clothing.php

Great costume sources, Woodsheal! Super.

We will have to wait for RadioKen to step in here and confirm for us what he was really looking for, but I suspect he was under the misconception that the kilt was worn by shopkeepers (and merchants) in Highland towns in the period and was seeking advice on how to be as authentic with this as possible. Now he knows that the kilt was not worn by this poorest of the merchant class he can choose to still wear it, or not. He can even wear a kilt, a top hat and carry a big sword. It's up to him how fanciful he wants to be, but I think you will agree that it's always a good idea to start out knowing what is authentic and what is fiction.

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

Does Brown's portrait really strike you as "rich guy's" garb? It looks like a rather plain wool jacket and waistcoat to my eyes....

Actually yes, a rich guy(the Prince) did pay for it, after all. That is much more like the attire of a gentleman out on the moor, or by the river might have worn. There a several paintings of that "age" at Blair Castle of the umpteenth Duke and friends with a monster salmon, gargantuan Stag, etc.. Whilst the dress in these pictures may well be more low key and perhaps more accurate ----I mean, who is going to get near a stag, even a half blind and half deaf one, when one is clanking noisily about with all that shiny metalwork flashing and precious jewels getting in the way?---- it would be a mistake to assume too much from any picture, even the ones at Blair, of that age.

However, a spot of common sense might help with the assumption making no end.This was the beginning of the age of "estate tweeds" where camouflage, warmth,hard wearing needs, and midge protection were far more important.So a certain dowdyness was very much in vogue. How do I know? Many "estate tweeds" hark back to that era and can be reliably dated. I still have no doubts whatsoever that shop keepers in Scotland would not wear tartan for their work in that era..

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

I think the OP is interested in proper attire of the period, in order to put together sort of a 'fantasy' kilted civilian outfit that would fit in with the Dickens fest.

That was certainly my take on Ken's question. While there is always the chance I'm off base on this, I took it as given that he wanted to use a kilt in his garb since he posted it on a KILT forum.

Ken is a vendor at the fest, and the organizers require vendors and all others working in the booths to be dressed in Victorian period costumes. Most male merchants over the years seem to have adopted a pretty standard simple costume of white shirt, dark vest and pants, and some kind of hat. The creative ones will simulate or wear plus fours (knickers) with some soccer socks. So I think a kilt would really help Ken to stand out in that crowd a little bit, which as a vendor is a good thing, last time I checked.

[creagdhubh]

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

But surely you don't think shop-keepers dressed like the subjects of MacLeay's portraits?

LOL!

[creagdhubh]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Actually yes, a rich guy(the Prince) did pay for it, after all. That is much more like the attire of a gentleman out on the moor, or by the river might have worn. There a several paintings of that "age" at Blair Castle of the umpteenth Duke and friends with a monster salmon, gargantuan Stag, etc.. Whilst the dress in these pictures may well be more low key and perhaps more accurate ----I mean, who is going to get near a stag, even a half blind and half deaf one, when one is clanking noisily about with all that shiny metalwork flashing and precious jewels getting in the way?---- it would be a mistake to assume too much from any picture, even the ones at Blair, of that age.

However, a spot of common sense might help with the assumption making no end.This was the beginning of the age of "estate tweeds" where camouflage, warmth,hard wearing needs, and midge protection were far more important.So a certain dowdyness was very much in vogue. How do I know? Many "estate tweeds" hark back to that era and can be reliably dated. I still have no doubts whatsoever that shop keepers in Scotland would not wear tartan for their work in that era..

Well stated Jock...we've all been down this road before with regards to Macleay's portraits et al!

[Nighthawk]

Well, if we're going for Victorian and fantasy, I say go for the whole Steampunk look! Kilted Steampunks... We're unique!

[figheadair]

Whilst the MacLeay portraits are a facinating source of information on the styles of the period there certainly don't represent what the common man wore. All these guys were, in one way or another, employees of the gentry, principally royalty and would have had their 'outfits' supplied by their employer to fit their ideal of traditional Highland dress. The common man simply could not afford such luxury.

The portraits, like those of McIan are more interesting for what they tell us of the style of clothing of each period and how that was influenced by the fashion of the day and/or an earlier era.

[Woodsheal]

Originally Posted by figheadair

Whilst the MacLeay portraits are a facinating source of information on the styles of the period there certainly don't represent what the common man wore. All these guys were, in one way or another, employees of the gentry, principally royalty and would have had their 'outfits' supplied by their employer to fit their ideal of traditional Highland dress. The common man simply could not afford such luxury.

You guys are still not getting it! The MacLeay images were put forth as suggestions for an imaginative kilted Highland look, to be worn in the somewhat fantastical setting of a holiday Dickens festival, NOT as representing the proper, authentic garb of a common shopkeeper.

Sheesh...!

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

Well, if we're going for Victorian and fantasy, I say go for the whole Steampunk look! Kilted Steampunks... We're unique!

You know how a trend gets tired, and you can kind of pinpoint where it went wrong? Well, after seeing $4 welder goggles rattle-canned with bronze Krylon for sale in the Museum Replicas catalog for $45, I'm calling Steampunk dead right here.