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Thread: Inspiration

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redshank View Post

    I don't see there being a problem with the penannular brooch, things like that where handed down from father to son, and it's perfectly suited for the use to which it is being put.
    By that reasoning, you wouldn't have a problem with him carrying a Viking sword with his outfit. There are no period descriptions or images of such brooches in use with Highland dress during the Jacobite period, for the simple reason that they were centuries "out of style"....
    Brian

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsheal View Post
    By that reasoning, you wouldn't have a problem with him carrying a Viking sword with his outfit. There are no period descriptions or images of such brooches in use with Highland dress during the Jacobite period, for the simple reason that they were centuries "out of style"....
    From My Experiences in the Rebellion by Aeneas Kennedy (unpublished, original manuscript in the library of the Ancient Arts Society, Edinburgh):

    I arrived at the appointed time [from internal evidence Kennedy is referring to Prestonpans] and took refreshment at Magdelain (sic) House before riding on to meet the Prince and his host. At Northfield [a house nearby] Mr. Mc-- discharged a pistol in my direction, the ball of which was deflected by the breastplate that my ancestor had worn at Flodden. That the ball did not penetrait (sic) my armour I put down to Mc--'s niggardly use of powder in his gonne (sic) as much as I did the magickal (sic) powers attributed to the large brooch with its long silver pin and ancient designs (emphasis added) that Edward Bruce gave to my ancestor during the Irish wars. Finally arriving at the Prince's camp without further adventure or mishap, I presented myself to our Future King (alas! it was not to be), who commented most favourably upon my sword, taken by my Mother's ancestor from a Norse Prince many a year ago at Largs. He favoured me with the comment that he hoped he should soon have the opportunity to take as fine a sword from a German prince, should the usurper ever present himself in Scotland. There was much merriment at The Prince's bon mott, and as it subsided Lord M took me asides and suggested that as the army would advance and attack at night, I could spare myself the inconvenience of daubing myself with woad, which I had the foresight to bring with me in the small clay pot that had been in my family for generations.

    Now as can be clearly inferred from the above, the Scots gentry did set great store in the use of arms, armour, and accoutrements handed down from previous generations. The highlighted portion, excerpted from the original manuscript, supports the contention of some that the medieval penannular brooch was worn by Jacobites. This, then, will undoubtedly be used as ample justification for the anachronistic dress worn by some modern day "romanticks" who otherwise are taking their cues from the works of Jane Lane (or that popular author, RLS). If one searches hard enough through obscure-- and indeed, unobtainable, or even imaginary-- sources, one will always find the justifications for any item of Highland apparel.

  3. #13
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    Ow, summun's tugging at me leg
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsheal View Post
    By that reasoning, you wouldn't have a problem with him carrying a Viking sword with his outfit. There are no period descriptions or images of such brooches in use with Highland dress during the Jacobite period, for the simple reason that they were centuries "out of style"....
    A viking sword, a roman sword, a flint axe, a pointed stick, what does it matter, just as long as it could have inflicted injury or death upon the enemy,
    you cant break history up into neat little boxes, each age ran into another, open your eyes, life isn't just about the black and white, words written by so called experts, they, are no more than opinions at the end of the day.
    As MoR has pointed out, there are many clues out there, and unless you are in possession of them all, all you can do is hazard a guess.

  5. #15
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    A pointed stick would be fine, so long as it was a SCOTTISH pointed stick, preferably with a couple of bands of hand-chased silver around it, but quite all right for the workingman if it only had a wee carving of a fishie.

    I absolutely agree, Redshank, - in most cases one day blends into the ones before and after it, the big exceptions being those days on which wars start and end, people are assassinated, and other events stand alone. But the first man who took a stick to a gun fight understood the significance of "out of fashion" better than most of us.
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  6. #16
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    The Aeneas Kennedy quote is quite interesting, and one that I've not seen before. I think it has an obvious "tongue in cheek" quality to it. The ludicrous image of someone appearing in a 1740's army camp bearing a Flodden breastplate, a Norse sword, an ancient talismanic brooch, and a pot of woad, is either for comedic effect - or the man was a bizarre eccentric. The pistol shot episode only adds to the farcical tone of the piece.

    At any rate, the line about the brooch dating from the days of the Bruces does nothing to advance the argument re: penannulars being worn in the pre-Proscription Jacobite period. Brooches of the early 1300's were NOT of the penannular configuration either. Again, their use had died out by roughly 1000AD. Consider the Clan MacDougall's famous "Brooch of Lorn" which traditionally belonged to Robert the Bruce. It is clearly not a penannular:



    But, one can "never say never" when it come to this sort of thing. Might there have been 700-year-old brooches being worn by late 17th/early 18th C. clansmen? Perhaps, but the number would be so miniscule as to be statiscally zero. The serious "living history" hobbyist strives to adhere to what was common, typical and prevalent in his/her portrayal so as not to mislead the public.

    For example, their were a handful of oddball recruits (again,statiscally zero)who appeared at the American Civil War's outset wearing parts of Revolutionary War uniforms, bearing ancient flintlock muskets, and even sporting "bullet proof" armor plate! Should such items be incorporated into a depiction of the common or average Civil War soldier for "living history" or reenactment purposes?

    However, FAR Be it from me to dictate what others should wear! Those wishing to perpetuate the "reenactorism" of wearing penannular brooches with their Jacobite impressions are welcome to do so. They are a fine complement to the double-bladed troll axes which also make an occasional appearance at such events....
    Brian

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsheal View Post
    However, the fellow should lose the Dark Ages penannular brooch....
    Why? It's been in the family for ages.
    A kilted Celt on the border.
    Kentoc'h mervel eget bezań saotret
    Omne bellum sumi facile, ceterum ęgerrume desinere.


  8. #18
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    If memory serves me correctly, I believe it was fairly common for French officers to wear breastplates during the early years of the French and Indian War. I also believe John Paul jones worn a breastplate in some of his naval engagements. Maybe there were a few viking blades made into dirks. But I think that is really pushing it.
    By Choice, not by Birth

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalPiper View Post
    Those hose look familiar.....hmmmm
    Funny you should say that Josh...I was just looking at those hose and thinking...I really like the red and green combo in diced hose...though I don't know what I would wear them with...I'd have to get me a kilt in brownish or red hues!
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." -- Thomas Paine

    Scottish-American Military Society Post 1921

  10. #20
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    http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co....sp?case_id=189

    A find attributed to be 17thC.

    Just adding some fuel.....

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