X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website The Scottish Trading Company
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    15th October 09
    Location
    Dallas area
    Posts
    1,184
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Kilted in the 1800's

    Good evening all,

    I recently got my wife a membership to the Jane Austen Society of North America for Christmas. As mentioned before it is one of her favorite authors.

    From what I can see part of which includes period garb events. From my pitiful knowledge I believe this would be George III era. This would fall after the romantic revival but before the height of the Victorian era.

    From what little I can find kilts would be appropriate, PC, but most of the pics I find are Victorian and quite frankly I've got to wonder how they walked around.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Jim
    I cook with a flair for the dramatic,
    and depraved indifference to calories

  2. #2
    Join Date
    7th December 09
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    806
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Check for pics and links under "regency" or "empire" era. That would be the correct period of clothing.

    Sir Walter Scott romanticized the kilt in the early 18th century, so you have some historical basis.
    "You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." -Obi Wan Kenobi

  3. #3
    Join Date
    30th June 10
    Location
    San Francisco, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,182
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "It's all the same to me, war or peace,
    I'm killed in the war or hung during peace."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,947
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Jane Austen was/is very much a fixture of Regency England. As such it would have been neigh on impossible that a gentleman in England during that time would have worn a kilt. Proper attire for the period would be that of the upper-middle class and upper-class English gentleman.

    Had you bought your wife a membership in the Sir Walter Scott Society of North America instead, you could have probably justified another kilt...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Crieff, Perthshire
    Posts
    3,632
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    I recently got my wife a membership to the Jane Austen Society of North America for Christmas. As mentioned before it is one of her favorite authors.

    From what I can see part of which includes period garb events. From my pitiful knowledge I believe this would be George III era. This would fall after the romantic revival but before the height of the Victorian era.
    The late 18th and early 19th centuries were period of great variation and change in the development of Highland Dress. Jane Austen (1775-1817) lived through much of the reign of Geo III (1760-1820) and the Regency (1811-1820). Both these periods, and the later reigns of Geo IV (1820-30) and William IV (1830-37) encompass what is termed the Highland Revival era.

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchy kilted View Post
    Sir Walter Scott romanticized the kilt in the early 18th century, so you have some historical basis.
    Early 1800s = early 19th century.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    Jane Austen was/is very much a fixture of Regency England. As such it would have been neigh on impossible that a gentleman in England during that time would have worn a kilt. Proper attire for the period would be that of the upper-middle class and upper-class English gentleman.
    It's not quite that simple. Several of the Chiefs, MacDonell of Glengarry being a leading force, were active at Court during the Regency and there is evidence that they, and the Prince Regent, wore Highland Clothes at some Balls and other events.

    Most of the surviving outfits ones sees are Regency and later and it's rare to find examples of civilian Highland dress pre-c1815. The main difference is in the style and cut of the jacket. I have been working with some outfits of the period but am not yet able to post images but hope to be able to publish them next year.

    There are a good number of surviving Regency era kilts that can be used as a template. Both Bob Martin and Matt Newsome have written on the styles and construction of box pleated kilts of the erly 1800s.
    Last edited by figheadair; 21st December 10 at 12:43 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    15th October 09
    Location
    Dallas area
    Posts
    1,184
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Seago View Post
    Thanks. I checked it out but while I could do a jabot but the jacket is way beyond my skill and probably beyond my wife's even if we had a pattern.


    So I would have to have a different kilt, hmm. Don't see that working well.

    "Amy, you know that Jane Austen membership I got you?"

    "Yes."

    "Well they have events where we can got in garb."

    "Cool."

    "Well I will have to have a new kilt, jacket, buckle shoes, ..."



    Jim
    I cook with a flair for the dramatic,
    and depraved indifference to calories

  7. #7
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    7,773
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    Jane Austen was/is very much a fixture of Regency England. As such it would have been neigh on impossible that a gentleman in England during that time would have worn a kilt.
    An exception that comes to mind is an officer in a Highland regiment who might well attend a ball or other function in his regiment's full dress uniform.

    As mentioned above, the period in question, spanning the end of the 18th century and the first quarter of the 19th, was a time of rapid change in men's fashion, which had a "trickle down effect" on Highland Dress.

    To illustrate, late 18th century Highland officer's dress looked like this:



    Around 1900 jacket collars began to get higher and the front opening of men's coats changed. (Both civilian and military, the two usually evolving more or less together.)
    18th century coats were double-breasted with the lapels being buttoned back. Around 1900 the lapels began to be closed and buttoned and the coatee evolved. The skirts of the 18th century jacket got shoved more to the rear and shortened.

    Here's a clan chief at the start of the 19th century showing the change in jacket style already underway



    and another portrait of around the same time. Note the double-breasted coatee buttoned across the chest, the higher collar, the tails moved around to the back and side.



    A bit later than the period under discussion perhaps, but interesting, are these surviving costumes from 1822. First we see the evolution to a single-breasted jacket with only lines of trim suggesting the earlier buttoned-back lapels



    and here no suggestion of the coatee's double-breasted origin remains. The tails in the rear can be seen.




    and from 1835, retaining the double-breasted look of the early 19th century. Here can see seen how sporrans usually looked in the first quarter of the 19th century, a narrow rim of binding instead of a cantle at the top, a fringe of hair in a contrasting colour at the top, and a row of large tassels.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 21st December 10 at 05:48 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    3rd March 10
    Location
    43*N 88*W
    Posts
    3,844
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    So I would have to have a different kilt, hmm. Don't see that working well.

    "Amy, you know that Jane Austen membership I got you?"

    "Yes."

    "Well they have events where we can got in garb."

    "Cool."

    "Well I will have to have a new kilt, jacket, buckle shoes, ..."



    Jim
    It's the gift that BOTH of you can enjoy!
    artificer Pronunciation: \är-ˈti-fə-sər, ˈär-tə-fə-sər\ : noun : 14th century :a skilled or artistic worker or craftsman
    Artificer Custom Sporrans
    *Home of the Original Kenneth MacLeay Sporran Project & Functional Brass Cantles*

  9. #9
    Join Date
    15th October 09
    Location
    Dallas area
    Posts
    1,184
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    Jane Austen was/is very much a fixture of Regency England. As such it would have been neigh on impossible that a gentleman in England during that time would have worn a kilt. Proper attire for the period would be that of the upper-middle class and upper-class English gentleman.

    Had you bought your wife a membership in the Sir Walter Scott Society of North America instead, you could have probably justified another kilt...
    Her interest is in English history (masters in Tudor reign) and English Lit. While she would of course know and probably read Sir Walter Scott and Robert Burns I've never heard her dicuss either much.

    BTW http://eswsc.com/ . No North American one yet.

    Who said I was a gentleman I was thinking that there were Scots around back than and while it may have been unlikely for an English gentleman to have been in a kilt I was figuring a Scottish one would have not had an issue of wearing one. Especially if, as mentioned by OC Richard, an officer.

    I will look into English garb of the era but that is another forum...

    Jim
    I cook with a flair for the dramatic,
    and depraved indifference to calories

  10. #10
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,947
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    Who said I was a gentleman
    Jim, it goes without saying that only a gentleman would give his wife a membership in the Jane Austen society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    I was thinking that there were Scots around back than and while it may have been unlikely for an English gentleman to have been in a kilt I was figuring a Scottish one would have not had an issue of wearing one. Especially if, as mentioned by OC Richard, an officer.
    Prior to the "King's Jaunt" a few years after the death of Jane Austen, the Scottish prejudice against being seen kilted in polite English (or even Scottish) society was rampant. True, a few individuals did wear the kilt in the South, but their personal eccentricities often bordered on madness-- a quick reading about Alisdair McDonnell should dispel any notions of the English gentry (or their visiting Scotch cousins) flouncing about in kilts. As far as Scottish army officers wearing their uniform is concerned, away from the garrison it would have been more-or-less confined to officers serving with their regiments in that locale (this would have been the case for the whole of the British army). As far as I am aware the Scots were pretty much kept bottled up in Scotland between the end of the American War, and the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars. Any Highland officer that ventured to mingle with "persons of consequence" would, in all likelihood, have done so in civilian attire, and not his "quaint native costume," especially in South Britain.

    Dashing as the kilt is, I don't believe it makes an appearance in the cannon of Jane Austen's work. Astute observer of manners and mores that she was, I think we have to assume that to be true to the spirit of her work, the kilt is a best left in the wardrobe, along with the mandarin kimono...

    Looks to me as though you will end up looking like Jane Austen's Mr. D'Arcy, and not like Raeburn's Macnab. How fortunate for your wife!
    Last edited by MacMillan of Rathdown; 21st December 10 at 09:38 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 6th August 09, 03:46 PM
  2. Kilted Samuarai? I'm a kilted JEDI!
    By Nighthawk in forum Show us your pics
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 13th December 08, 12:22 PM
  3. Seattle area kilted men - Help a kilted man out!
    By Kilted Eric in forum Miscellaneous Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 14th August 07, 09:14 PM
  4. Kilted in Seattle and Kilted knot tying
    By irishrob in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 5th July 06, 02:47 PM
  5. Kilted at the Yacht Club, Kilted at the Air Show
    By Alan H in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30th May 06, 08:43 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0