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  1. #11
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    Interesting but complete marketing rubbish IMHO.

    Even in the dim and distant past (1946) I find it hard to believe that such a piece would not have been a) photographed, and b) loaned or given to the National Museum.

    There're shades of the Duoai Mss story here - the Sobieski Stuarts claimed it as the basis for the VS but surprise surprise they couldn't/wouldn't make it available for examination by Sir Dick Lauder.

    To paraphrase Gerry Maguire - Show me the money!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldHighlander View Post

    In this older (closed) thread on the Macdonell Of Keppoch are some computer generated illustrations of various Macdonnell of Keppoch tartans plus a discussion of the Battle of Mulroy (1688).
    I missed that original thread but I would have noted that both versions of this Keppoch sett are probably erroneous. There is a connection with a similar Robertson sett and all are probably based on fragments of the plaid found at Culloden and shown, incorrectly, by D W Stewart in his Old & Rare. I'm looking for more original pieces of this for a paper. See - http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...ulloden-62702/

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    I missed that original thread but I would have noted that both versions of this Keppoch sett are probably erroneous. There is a connection with a similar Robertson sett and all are probably based on fragments of the plaid found at Culloden and shown, incorrectly, by D W Stewart in his Old & Rare. I'm looking for more original pieces of this for a paper. See - http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...ulloden-62702/
    Which tartans? #511 & #879??
    Last edited by BoldHighlander; 1st December 10 at 12:46 AM.
    [SIZE="2"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]T. E. ("TERRY") HOLMES[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]proud descendant of the McReynolds/MacRanalds of Ulster & Keppoch, Somerled & Robert the Bruce.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]"Ah, here comes the Bold Highlander. No @rse in his breeks but too proud to tug his forelock..." Rob Roy (1995)[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    I missed that original thread but I would have noted that both versions of this Keppoch sett are probably erroneous. There is a connection with a similar Robertson sett and all are probably based on fragments of the plaid found at Culloden and shown, incorrectly, by D W Stewart in his Old & Rare. I'm looking for more original pieces of this for a paper. See - http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...ulloden-62702/
    Quote Originally Posted by BoldHighlander View Post
    Which tartans? #511 & #879??
    Peter, if your referring to tartan(s) #511 / #879, all I know is what Matt Newsome wrote in his 2001 article Pre-Culloden Tartans:

    "A MacDonnell of Keppoch tartan (though not the one normally seen today) was copied from a relic of 'the '45' that was given by Keppoch to Prince Charles Edward."

    ...and in private correspondence from 2008 to another member of XMarks & myself (which basically reiterated the above info along with a thread count).

    Other than that I make no other claims to the veracity of the information either way, and I would be interested in what your research turns up.

    By the by, have you completed your article on the authentic "Rob Roy" tartan that was not selected for the movie? I'm waiting eagerly for it!
    [SIZE="2"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]T. E. ("TERRY") HOLMES[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]proud descendant of the McReynolds/MacRanalds of Ulster & Keppoch, Somerled & Robert the Bruce.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]"Ah, here comes the Bold Highlander. No @rse in his breeks but too proud to tug his forelock..." Rob Roy (1995)[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldHighlander View Post
    Which tartans? #511 & #879??
    No. #1401, #1506 & #1507.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    No. #1401, 1506 & 1507.
    Thanks for the clarification.
    I have no information on those, other than what was posted.

    I enjoy your articles Peter, & will be interested in seeing if those connect up to the "Culloden" tartan that your researching (heck, I'm interested in your research on this fragment of tartan period! ).
    [SIZE="2"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]T. E. ("TERRY") HOLMES[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]proud descendant of the McReynolds/MacRanalds of Ulster & Keppoch, Somerled & Robert the Bruce.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]"Ah, here comes the Bold Highlander. No @rse in his breeks but too proud to tug his forelock..." Rob Roy (1995)[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldHighlander View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.
    I have no information on those, other than what was posted.

    I enjoy your articles Peter, & will be interested in seeing if those connect up to the "Culloden" tartan that your researching (heck, I'm interested in your research on this fragment of tartan period! ).
    There is no doubt in my mind that they are all one and the same sett. The problem with working it out is threefold:

    1. The original plaid was a large sett with a selvedge mark.

    2. The original was chopped up into dozens of pieces, often tiny, and/or the pieces were later sub-divided, making determination of the sett tricky.

    3. The plaid was copied in 1821 although it's likely that it was incomplete then. I've seen a full width piece of the copy and it just doesn't make sense at the joining selvedge which suggests to me that that portion was abest guess at the time.

    Hence my search for as many original fragments in the hope that one might show the second (missing) pivot.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    2. The original was chopped up into dozens of pieces, often tiny, and/or the pieces were later sub-divided, making determination of the sett tricky.

    Hence my search for as many original fragments in the hope that one might show the second (missing) pivot.
    It sounds like a monumental task to be sure. I wish you all the best & good hunting in your task Peter!
    [SIZE="2"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]T. E. ("TERRY") HOLMES[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]proud descendant of the McReynolds/MacRanalds of Ulster & Keppoch, Somerled & Robert the Bruce.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]"Ah, here comes the Bold Highlander. No @rse in his breeks but too proud to tug his forelock..." Rob Roy (1995)[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    No. #1401, #1506 & #1507.
    Terry,

    Here's the 1821 copy of the MacKintosh/Culloden plaid. By comparision you can see that the Keppoch versions are quite wrong.


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    No. #1401, #1506 & #1507.
    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    Terry,

    Here's the 1821 copy of the MacKintosh/Culloden plaid. By comparision you can see that the Keppoch versions are quite wrong.

    Thanks Peter

    Indeed, quite a similarity between those three Keppoch tartans & the MacKintosh tartan above....there was something about those 3 that never appealed to me, now I know what it is

    (Actually the truth be told, I never liked the colour scheme of #'s 1401, 1506, & 1507......I prefer the #511 /#879 tartans, more pleasing to my eye).

    Thanks again.
    [SIZE="2"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]T. E. ("TERRY") HOLMES[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"][FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B][I]proud descendant of the McReynolds/MacRanalds of Ulster & Keppoch, Somerled & Robert the Bruce.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]"Ah, here comes the Bold Highlander. No @rse in his breeks but too proud to tug his forelock..." Rob Roy (1995)[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

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