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  1. #1
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    Okay...Here's one out of the blue...NON-Scottish Historical Kilts...

    When I was in college I was a History major (primarily Medieval studies but also Antiquity).

    I was looking through some of my old books and came to something interesting about Ancient Egypt...

    Look at the artwork, fellas!! They are wearing pleated kilts. They would have been made of linen but they are kilts in my book.

    Like during the golden age of great kilting in Scotland noble and peasant alike wore a similar unbifurcared garment.

    The pleats were gathered upward toward the waist rather than hanging down the back in the Scottish fashion. One could venture to suppose that the gathered material could be utilised to hold the odd item or two, not unlike the filleagh mor, or great kilt.

    Of course, some Ancient Egyptians are clearly depicted in loincloths and still others in various robes but many were kilted.

    Any thoughts on the subject from the rabble?
    Last edited by TheOfficialBren; 26th September 12 at 01:45 AM.
    The Official [BREN]

  2. #2
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    I have no real historical knowledge to help here, but I certainly have been aware that the ancient Egyptians wore the kilt of some sort. As far as I am aware, the Scots have only claimed the tartan ( assorted tweeds too, I would say) kilt as their own.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  3. #3
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    That is true. I have only come across tartans as we know them in Scotland...and only within a couple of recent centuries.

    The Egyptians mstly wore white linen and cotton. No heavy wools or tweeds. Not the right climate for those textiles in the Nile region.
    Last edited by TheOfficialBren; 26th September 12 at 02:06 AM.
    The Official [BREN]

  4. #4
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    It is well known that various unbifurcated garments of various styles and materials have bee employed by us clever monkeys for many 1000's of years. So while the Scots didn't "invent" the kilt, nor perhaps tartan, they sure were the ones who put the two together in such an iconic style. I would say the Scottish kilt reached its highest classic art form during the Victorian period. Its pretty much a version of that we've brought with us to today. But the kilt, has migrated out of the Scottish highlands along with the Scots to all points of the globe. And once again, we are seeing new evolutions of style, fabric and construction. I must humbly disagree with those who say that the "utility" kilt etc. are not kilts. They are. Not traditional highland kilts for sure, but kilts nonetheless.

  5. #5
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    I do not think that the Egyptian shendyt is a kilt. You say that the pleats go in a totally different direction. It is made of a totally different fabric. And finally looks different -



    Just because it wraps round does not make it a kilt. Just like the lava-lava and the sarong - they are not kilts.

    Regards

    Chas
    [FONT=arial]Regards[/FONT]
    [B][SIZE=2][FONT=Comic Sans MS][I]Chas [/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/B]

  6. #6
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    Just because it wraps round does not make it a kilt. Just like the lava-lava and the sarong - they are not kilts.
    I agree, Chas.

    Wrap-around garments from other cultures, which already have their own names, should be respected for what they are. They are unique and different, and have their own history. And while they may be 'brothers' of the kilt in the unbifurcated garment category, they are not kilts. I don't really see any benefit in trying to call any unbifurcated garment a kilt. That only detracts from their original identity.

    Of course, that delves back into the issue of "what defines a kilt?", upon which there is no universal agreement. In my mind, the original kilt is the Scottish one, including its historical variations in Scotland. New kilt types have been created elsewhere, and since they lack their own unique cultural name, I'm fine with calling them kilts (or at least a modified kilt term like "contemporary kilt" or "utility kilt"). But I just can't see the point in including other garments which already have their own identity.

  7. #7
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    Here is some information that I found a while ago...
    The Schenti is sometimes referred to as the “Egyptian kilt” because it is also a garment that is wrapped around the waist of men. At a certain point the schenti was pleated.
    The Schenti looks different however. This is normal: a) the Egyptians didn't use tartans b) the schenti was meant to be worn in a warm climate. Other fabrics had to be used.c) the kilt, and everything around, is loaded with meaning that is specific to the Scottish heritage. The Egyptian culture is/was completely different.


    Two useful URLs:
    http://www.fashionencyclopedia.com/f...t/Schenti.html
    http://www.garbtheworld.com/items/g0095.shtml

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chas View Post
    Just because it wraps round does not make it a kilt. Just like the lava-lava and the sarong - they are not kilts.
    Very true, but if anyone is used to wearing a sarong, I've been wearing the sarongs since meeting my wife, it can make one less nervous about donning a kilt. Possibly why a lot of Asians love the kilt even if they don't actually wear it themselves.
    Martin.
    AKA - The Scouter in a Kilt.
    Proud, but homesick, son of Skye.
    Member of the Clan MacLeod Society (Scotland)

  9. #9
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    The Ancient Egyptian empire spanned thousands of years and many economic classes wore the shendyt. It was ultimately worn several different ways and many people see it as a type of kilt. I would be one who does. I would love to get my hands on some actual specs for a real historical shendyt. Surely there are some surviving somewhere.

  10. #10
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    Thank you, everyone, for your insights. It is awesome to see what you guys have to say regarding this topic. One would certainly not refer to a Fustanella (spelling?), a traditional Greek men's unbifurcated garment, as a kilt. However, personally, the main qualifications of what make kilts stand apart from other unbifurcated garments (pleated, wrap around, intended for males to wear) are certainly met in the shendyt or schenti.

    True, there is a wide divergence in the construction and materials but this is to be expected from bronze age tailoring to early modern tailoring. Climate and culture must be considered.

    Lava lavas do not qualify as kilts, I agree, nor do sarongs, either.

    With regard to the Scottish kilt for which we all have an affinity: There can be only one. ;-)
    The Official [BREN]

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