[Pumpkin6RH]

Lads,

The Black Watch did NOT wear any kilts on the island. The Pipe Major did wear his kilt in action once but that was during the Toburk action in North Africa not on Crete.

Also, all the British (including the BW) and NZ troops wore P'37 BD with NO insignia while the Aussie troops wore their traditional 4 pocket service dress with bronze "Austraila" shoulder titles and the the "sun burst" collar dogs.

So no kilts on Crete but there will be a big "Crete" event in CA in 2011. They have a web site that gives the date of the event but not much else. As it is over a year and half away that gives you some time.

cheers,
Stephen

[Lachlan09]

Roderick Grant (I think he’s Hugh Grant's dad) wrote a good book on the 51st HD in WW2. He was intelligence officer.

In that book, photos of pipers of the BW can be seen wearing their Royal Stewart kilts playing to wounded comrades in the Western Desert in 1942.

There is also an excellent portrait of Piper Dawson, in his KD with kilt.

Did they dress up for the photos/portrait or were they wearing their kilts throughout ?

For sure, Highland pipers and Highland Jocks in general donned their kilts at the slightest provocation !

Examples from memory include the 2nd Gordons newly off the boat and in their kilts lining the route of the Japanese victory parade in Singapore February 1942. The survivors of the battling Argylls and Royal Marines (Plymouth Argylls) rode past them in some recovered Argylls’ trucks.

The 51st HD parades in Tripoli and later in Tunis 1943. They were a main part of the victory celebration, as the massed pipe bands went swinging by in their kilts.

The 51st HD entry into St Valery-en-Caux, September 1944. Field Marshal Montgomery changed his order of battle so that the 51st could liberate the town. The pipe band wore their kilts of course.

Captain Ogilvie of the Glider Pilot Regiment who wore his kilt, para-bowler and BD blouse throughout the battle for Arnhem, September 1944.

The Pipe Band of the 7th Argylls of the 51st parading through Bremerhaven, May 1945, kilted, to the bemusement of the collection of senior German officers they passed by.

[OC Richard]

Yes indeed Lachlan! You and I seem to own many of the same books!

There are many photos showing the pipers of various Highland regiments wearing the kilt in North Africa and Europe in WWII.

There are a few photos of non-pipers wearing the kilt:

In The 51st Highland Division At War:

1st Camerons in France, April to June 1940

Piper and guard detail, Gordons, North Africa, 1942

Officers, Camerons, Tunis, 1942

Guard detail, Gordons, 51st Division HQ, Rhineland, early 1945?

Officer, Black Watch, negotiating surrender of Bremerhaven, May 7 1945

Officers and Other Ranks of the Black Watch on parade, May 12 1945

So it seems that Officers had their kilts along, and enough Other Ranks to mount guard details in kilts in some regiments. Interesting that by May 1945 the Black Watch was able to field a sizable unit all kilted. (BTW plain leather "Highland Brigade" sporrans for the BW Officers, no sporrans for the Other Ranks, in that May parade.)

[cajunscot]

There is a picture in Chappell's The Canadian Army at War that shows a Seaforth Highlander of Canada piper wearing his kilt in a combat zone (Italy? -- I don't have the book handy).

There are also several photos of Irish pipers playing in the Italian Campaign in their saffron kilts, including a great photo of two pipers talking to a Swiss Guardsman at the Vatican.

T.

[OC Richard]

Good idea, that of checking the Men-At-Arms books.

In The Canadian Army At War:

Seaforths of Canada, bugler and piper, Ortona, 1944

(the photo you're referring to)

[Lachlan09]

I wonder when was the last occasion (including parades and walking out) the kilted version of the khaki service dress tunic with collar dogs etc was worn by kilted regiments ? Possibly end of the war ?

[OC Richard]

Originally Posted by Lachlan09

I wonder when was the last occasion (including parades and walking out) the kilted version of the khaki service dress tunic with collar dogs etc was worn by kilted regiments ? Possibly end of the war ?

Good question!

In The Scottish Soldier by Stephen Wood, there's a magnificent fullpage photo titled "Pipe Major Donald MacLean and Drum Major James Watson, King's Guard Pipe Band at Balmoral Castle, 1947."

It shows these two men plus other pipers in the background all wearing the prewar khaki service dress tunic, Highland cutway style, with standing collar bearing collar badges. Interesting that the Pipe Major's crossbelt bears six miniature cap badges of various Scottish regiments. They are wearing spats, hosetops, horsehair sporrans, belts etc as per full dress.