[Drac]

Good day all,

I ran into some issues with my picking up a Lamont kilt, my grandmother isn't a Whyte like I was always told. So my Scottish blood got a bit thinner.

I am still planning to get a dress kilt though. When browsing through some of the universal tartans I was thinking about what made them universal. Some it's kind of obvious such as hunting. Not attached to an area of a country or family.

Some of the others though have made me wonder for a while about how they could be considered universal. I am curious on them but not wanting to start an argument on who can wear a tartans (since they are classified universal I assume that anyone can) just curious on why these are considered universal.

Blackwatch is the first one that comes to mind. This, a long with other military/unit tartans, seems to be given a disservice to those that serve in that unit that their "uniform" is allowed to be worn by those who have never served. Others such as Lochness that are attached to a region. Like clan tartans it would seem that idea would be you have some attachment to that region. There even seems to be clan tartans that are considered universal.

Jim

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by Drac

Good day all,

I ran into some issues with my picking up a Lamont kilt, my grandmother isn't a Whyte like I was always told. So my Scottish blood got a bit thinner.

I am still planning to get a dress kilt though. When browsing through some of the universal plaids I was thinking about what made them universal. Some it's kind of obvious such as hunting. Not attached to an area of a country or family.

Some of the others though have made me wonder for a while about how they could be considered universal. I am curious on them but not wanting to start an argument on who can wear a plaid (since they are classified universal I assume that anyone can) just curious on why these are considered universal.

Blackwatch is the first one that comes to mind. This, a long with other military/unit plaids, seems to be given a disservice to those that serve in that unit that their "uniform" is allowed to be worn by those who have never served. Others such as Lochness that are attached to a region. Like clan plaids it would seem that idea would be you have some attachment to that region. There even seems to be clan plaids that are considered universal.

Jim

Jim,

Are you referring to universal tartans? This question might be better in the heraldry & tartans section.

T.

[Drac]

Good point! Thanks.

Can the mod move this or should I open a new thead?

Jim

[paulhenry]

I think some are universal because someone once said they were! Don't forget the Blackwatch is only one name for that particular tartan, it's known by several others

Just a point though, you might be better in using the word "tartan" rather than plaid as it will lead to less confusion with the Plaid that is the length of fabric attached to the shoulder

[Drac]

Corrected.

[Mr. MacDougall]

In fact, Campbell / Blackwatch tartan is universal precisely because it was used by the military. During the Highland Proscriptions, the only tartans woven were those of military regiments, and the only kilts worn were likewise.

Those who had taken the king's shilling were more common than you'd think, and they brought their kilts home with them, so that when the Proscriptions were lifted, there were a lot of fellows left with kilts in that tartan.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

[xena]

WRT to Black Watch tartan being universal, and therefore a disservice to the Regiment of the same name, I'd have to disagree.

The Black Watch guard the red hackle as the item that one has to earn by service, not the tartan. My advice is to not wear a red hackle unless one has earned it the hard way.

The same goes for maroon t-shirts around paratroopers. Not a good idea unless you're one of them.

[Detroitpete]

Drac,
Throughout these threads you'll find the discussions of which tartan to wear and why. It usually breaks down like this:

-ONLY wear the tartan for your surname/clan/military branch etc.
-Wear tartans for which you have some ancestral 'tie' to (tie being described as anything from surname, kinship, to 'I think we're from there", to "I once visited there")
-Wear what you like--know what you wear and why
-Wear what you like

If you've chosen to go the 'universal' route, you have a plethora of options! If you choose to honor any Scottish ancestry you have no matter how slim--try tartans like "Pride of Scotland", "Scotland's National" etc.

Check out the websites of those that advertise here and see which universal's appeal to you.

You'll get tons of advice from folks telling you what they think. In the end, its all up to you. Happy hunting!

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by Mr. MacDougall

In fact, Campbell / Blackwatch tartan is universal precisely because it was used by the military. During the Highland Proscriptions, the only tartans woven were those of military regiments, and the only kilts worn were likewise.

Those who had taken the king's shilling were more common than you'd think, and they brought their kilts home with them, so that when the Proscriptions were lifted, there were a lot of fellows left with kilts in that tartan.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

The term "universal" does refer to the Government Sett (aka Black Watch - always two words), but in reference to efforts by the British government to force all Scottish regiments in the late 19th century to adopt it as a "universal" tartan and not the belief today that it is an "open" tartan, even though it is de facto.

Needless to say, such a move was resisted by the Highland regiments that wore their own distinctive tartans, and even many of the Lowland regiments, that originally wore Government Sett as trews, began to adopt their "own" tartans in the years before the First World War.

T.

[figheadair]

Originally Posted by Mr. MacDougall

In fact, Campbell / Blackwatch tartan is universal precisely because it was used by the military. During the Highland Proscriptions, the only tartans woven were those of military regiments, and the only kilts worn were likewise.

That was not the case. there are several portaits showing, and extant specimens of, tartan during the Proscription period that were not military. Nor is it the case that only the military could wear tartan. In addition to the Military the 1747 Act specifically exempted women, gentry, the sons of gentry and anyone who could command more than three servants. Thus the Act actually only affect the common/poorer stratum of society and excluded the very people that who have been instrumental in the Rising.