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Thread: Crest design...

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    Crest design...

    Regarding the belt and buckle 'clan crest' designs, is there any significance to the end of the belt being tucked UNDER, or laying on TOP as it hangs down?
    "We are all connected...to each other, biologically; to the earth, chemically; to the universe, atomically...and that makes me smile." - Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    I have only a modest interest in these matters, but yes, I think there is an important significance between the the two ways that you describe. No doubt someone more knowledgeable on these matters than me, will chip in before long.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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    I could be mistaken (and probably am), but I believe the strap tucked under represents one of the heraldic orders (see Order of the Garter for example).
    John

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    I wear a tool belt that does not have a peg within the buckle or holes in the strap. My belt slides through the buckle and the extra length of belt (about ten inches) ties just as the clan badge design does. The reasons for me are, the extra length is out of the way and the belt does not slip to become loose or spread when I add weight to the tool pouch.
    This may have been the same idea when wearing a sword and other bulky items on a soldiers belt in olden times.
    I have no other justification for my answer and realize it does not complete your query. I'll keep reading to see if more on the "over lap" of the belt reason is quantified.

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    I've looked in a few of my heraldic books and have yet to find anything that says there's a difference. Stephen Friar's New Heraldic Dictionary assumes that all straps are tucked, while Heather Child's Heraldic Design doesn't seem to mention the end of the strap at all. Most of the other books I (quickly) checked don't seem to have anything about straps and buckles in the context of Scottish crest badges.

    I've seen the clansman's crest badge of most clans illustrated both with the end tucked and hanging loosely, so I am inclined to think it is up to the artist. That said, Tarheel might be onto something as I have never seen the blue strap of the Order of the Garter untucked, so perhaps there is a loose convention to leave the straps untucked on crest badges to differentiate them from the chivalric order's garter.

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    I know I don't really need to remind everyone but some designs for the belt buckle and the belt tip of Clan Crests are protected under copyright. The one I know of specifically is the design authorized by the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. This design was created specifically for the Council. It is the same design used under license by Gaelic Themes.
    This design is copyright by X Marks member Duncan of Sketraw (username = Sketraw).



    The portion inside the belt is usually the chief's personally owned crest. Use of a Chief's crest would come under the rules of Heraldry.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleJCS View Post
    I could be mistaken (and probably am), but I believe the strap tucked under represents one of the heraldic orders (see Order of the Garter for example).
    That's pretty much it, I think. Clan badge manufactures used to make their badges with the "tucked" strap. These days, after certain heraldic concerns were raised, the strap is "un-tucked" and just hangs over the main of the strap. There must be many thousands ----tens of thousands probably----- of Clan badges still around with the "tucked" straps. I would not loose too much sleep over it if it were me.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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    None lost - just noticing the difference. Thanks for everyone's input!
    "We are all connected...to each other, biologically; to the earth, chemically; to the universe, atomically...and that makes me smile." - Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    It is my understanding that all this crest badge business has little antiquity relative to the antiquity of the clans of Scotland. Just when it became the custom for clansmen to wear their chief's crest is uncertain but it probably developed about the time of the great tartan revival, the late 18th c., and was probably influenced by Sir Walter Scott and other romantic writers of the era. While it is now the custom to wear the chief's crest, encircled in a buckle and strap, in the days prior to 1746 the clan plant badge was worn to signify the allegiance to the clan of the wearer. It has been difficult, for me at least, to find any contemporary representations of the clan crest badge in use prior to the 19th c. The original question, of course, was what was the significance of the way the strap was tucked in? If my theory as stated above is correct then it is doubtful there was any significance at all, at least no ancient significance. A lot of things which we take for granted today like the crest badge, the chief wearing his eagle feathers and clan tartan, have no true basis in antiquity. I am probably completely wrong on this and am sure someone here will tell if I am but for now I am sticking with it.
    Last edited by MacRob; 21st March 16 at 05:29 AM. Reason: Correct grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Profane James View Post
    Regarding the belt and buckle 'clan crest' designs, is there any significance to the end of the belt being tucked UNDER, or laying on TOP as it hangs down?
    No. .

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