X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website The Scottish Trading Company
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    3rd June 15
    Location
    Midland, Texas, USA
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    A Crest of Masters family?

    I am thinking about making a picture of the family crest that I could frame for my home, and possibly use the crest to be made for a kilt buckle or on a fly plaid broach. Y'all's help and advice will be greatly appreciated. I have read not a few of the threads here in the Heraldry Forum, so I realized that I cannot display in my home a picture of the Masters' coat of arms that is shown on the Masters' website. As I now understand, that coat of arms was made for a specific person, who has been long dead. Is that correct? (If so, that is why I changed my avatar from the coat of arms to the Buchanan tartan). I did read the website: http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/216.181.html

    So I thought I could have the crest displayed in my home. Is that allowable according to Scottish authority (the Court of the Lord Lyon)?

    The coat of arms that is part of my heritage is listed as Masters in The General Armory by Sir Bernard Burke, C.B, LL.D., Ulster King of Arms, 1884 on page 668.

    The Crest is also listed but there is no motto. So would the crest be encircled with the strap and buckle without any words? Is this also called a badge? Where could I find the motto for the Masters?

    Sorry if I am tripped all over my words and terminology. I'm new to this world of kilts and heraldry.

    Here is the blazon? (description) of the crest: A cock’s head erased ar. Combed and wattled gu. In the beak an ear of wheat slipped or., betw. two wings az. semée of estoiles gold.

    Steve
    Last edited by Evestay53; 23rd July 15 at 12:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    14th December 06
    Location
    Manassas, Commonwealth of Virginia
    Posts
    659
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, just a preliminary search on the ole web reveals that the Masters are a sept of Clan Buchanan. Methinks you should be proper in using the Buchanan motto: Clarior hinc honos or “Henceforth forward the honour shall grow ever brighter.”
    Mark Anthony Henderson
    Virtus et Victoria - Virtue and Victory
    "I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams

  3. The Following User Says 'Aye' to MacEanruig For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Olde New England
    Posts
    1,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Masters is a sept of the Clan Buchanan so you would be entitled to wear the Clan Badge - which you will find on the top right of this page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Buchanan

    Immediately below it you will find the Black Rampant Lion on a gold (yellow) background which is our Clan Crest. As we have no chief there are no chiefly arms currently issued.

    If you were to join the Clan Buchanan Society International you would be able to display our Coat of Arms as issued to us by the court of the Lord Lyon.

    http://www.theclanbuchanan.com/html/about.html
    President, Clan Buchanan Society International

  5. #4
    Join Date
    3rd June 15
    Location
    Midland, Texas, USA
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Masters is a sept of the Clan Buchanan

    Quote Originally Posted by ctbuchanan View Post
    Masters is a sept of the Clan Buchanan so you would be entitled to wear the Clan Badge - which you will find on the top right of this page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Buchanan

    Immediately below it you will find the Black Rampant Lion on a gold (yellow) background which is our Clan Crest. As we have no chief there are no chiefly arms currently issued.

    If you were to join the Clan Buchanan Society International you would be able to display our Coat of Arms as issued to us by the court of the Lord Lyon.

    http://www.theclanbuchanan.com/html/about.html
    Thanks, ctbuchanan. You helped clarify for me the difference between the Clan Badge and the Clan Crest (I think). I did print off the membership application. Again thanks,

    Steve

  6. #5
    Join Date
    9th June 10
    Location
    Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa
    Posts
    3,121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just for clarification, CT, the black lion within a black royal tressure on a gold field is the clan coat of arms, and not a crest at all.
    The crest (which probably belonged to the clan chief, or to its senior representative) is the device within the strap and buckle: the hand holding the ducal cap, with laurel branches on either side.
    The blazon quoted on the website does not mention the rose above the cap, although it seems also to be part of the crest.
    The crest-wreath, or torse, should always be shown with the crest unless it is replaced (and specified as such in the official blazon) by a coronet or similar device.
    Any Buchanan (or, in this instance, a Masters) may display the clan crest badge, or wear it on his bonnet. The crest by itself is a different beast, however.
    A Masters or Buchanan who has his own coat of arms may, however, display his personal crest instead of the clan badge.
    The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
    [Proverbs 14:27]

  7. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Mike_Oettle For This Useful Post:


  8. #6
    Join Date
    3rd June 15
    Location
    Midland, Texas, USA
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks Mike for the clarification. I was a little confused.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Olde New England
    Posts
    1,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well I guess I should have used shield or escutcheon to describe the various elements of the arms that we use. Here is a photo of our Clan at the New Hampshire Highland Games and how we use them. Clan Badges tend to be small but there are several on caps and kilts.



    Cheers.
    Last edited by ctbuchanan; 24th July 15 at 10:56 AM.
    President, Clan Buchanan Society International

  10. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to ctbuchanan For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Join Date
    6th May 12
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    505
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That is a brilliant image. One of these years, we will get up there. Can't promise I'll sport my "McInally" Buchanan kilt (it may be another tartan of our family), but we'd like to go.

    Ryan M. Liddell

  12. #9
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Olde New England
    Posts
    1,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Domehead View Post
    That is a brilliant image. One of these years, we will get up there. Can't promise I'll sport my "McInally" Buchanan kilt (it may be another tartan of our family), but we'd like to go.

    Ryan M. Liddell
    If you come, try to make it in 2016. We will be celebrating our 1,000th year as a Clan (1016-2016) and I can guarantee you the we will rock the place.
    President, Clan Buchanan Society International

  13. The Following User Says 'Aye' to ctbuchanan For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Join Date
    24th March 11
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Evestay53 View Post
    I am thinking about making a picture of the family crest that I could frame for my home, and possibly use the crest to be made for a kilt buckle or on a fly plaid broach. Y'all's help and advice will be greatly appreciated. I have read not a few of the threads here in the Heraldry Forum, so I realized that I cannot display in my home a picture of the Masters' coat of arms that is shown on the Masters' website. As I now understand, that coat of arms was made for a specific person, who has been long dead. Is that correct? (If so, that is why I changed my avatar from the coat of arms to the Buchanan tartan). I did read the website: http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/216.181.html

    So I thought I could have the crest displayed in my home. Is that allowable according to Scottish authority (the Court of the Lord Lyon)?
    So, apart from the crest vs coat of arms terminology issue, already addressed by others:

    Even under Scottish law, there's nothing to prevent someone from displaying a picture of any coat of arms he wants inside his own house, particularly provided he doesn't misrepresent it as his own. Of course, your profile says you live in Texas, where Lord Lyon's writ doesn't run, so perhaps the question is more usefully addressed in a wider context of good heraldic practice.

    Let's start with the misconception that a coat of arms is only for a specific person. It is actually for a specific person, or more rarely persons, and his descendants in the direct legitimate male line. (I'm simplifying a bit; there can be exceptions, but if they applied in this case you'd already know about it.) Thus, the question is: how do you know that...

    The coat of arms that is part of my heritage is listed as Masters in The General Armory by Sir Bernard Burke, C.B, LL.D., Ulster King of Arms, 1884 on page 668.
    You can only know this if you've traced your ancestry with a high degree of certainty to a person who legitimately bore the arms shown by Burke. The crest you give below is the one that goes with the first entry, which fortunately is identified as originating in a specific town and county (Ewdon, Shropshire). The only way to establish a right to use these arms and crest as your own is to do the genealogy.

    The Crest is also listed but there is no motto.
    English mottoes are borne at the discretion of the person using the arms; they're not part of the grant. There are certain mottoes that tend to be used over and over again and might be thought of as family mottoes, but there's nothing formally fixed about them. The situation is different in Scotland, but these arms are English. Which gets to the core point:

    So would the crest be encircled with the strap and buckle without any words? Is this also called a badge?
    A crest encircled by a strap and buckle is indeed a badge, specifically the badge worn by "followers" of the person whose crest is depicted. People who have their own (Scottish) arms do not use a strap and buckle around their crests, because following yourself just takes you around in circles.

    In any case, it is a specifically Scottish custom (albeit not a very old one) and makes no sense used with English devices. There is no Clan Masters with a chief for you to follow.

    If you identify for some reason with Buchanan, then the thing to do is to wear the Buchanan clansman's badge. But be aware that the whole sept thing is at least as fictitious as the notion that everyone with the same last name is entitled to the same arms. There may have been a family named Masters that was under the protection of or otherwise affiliated with the Buchanans, but that doesn't make everyone named Masters a member of Clan Buchanan. Particularly not the specific Masters family of Ewdon, Shropshire, whose arms you've identified.

    There's undoubtedly more to be said, but this is enough for now.

  15. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to Joseph McMillan For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0