X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website The Scottish Trading Company
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    12th June 15
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lord Lyon taking football clubs to task over badges

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34882922

    What does everybody think of this? These two club badges were deemed too close to official coats of arms despite containing elements (namely, letters within the shield) forbidden in official grants. I know from that that these aren't official, but there is still the risk they could be mistaken for the real thing by people outside heraldry. I still think it's a bit overboard from the Lord Lyon, particularly regarding that these clubs have to spend thousands on designing a new logo when they're hardly glamorous or rich. Of course, YMMV.
    [CENTER][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]PROUD[/COLOR] [COLOR="#FFD700"]YORKSHIRE[/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"]KILTIE[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="#0000CD"]Scottish[/COLOR] clans: Fletcher, McGregor and Forbes
    [COLOR="#008000"]Irish[/COLOR] clans: O'Brien, Ryan and many others
    [COLOR="#008000"]Irish[/COLOR]/[COLOR="#FF0000"]Welsh[/COLOR] families: Carey[/B][/CENTER]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    28th May 13
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    2,467
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am not familiar with the heraldry laws, but if something has been in use for 60 years or so the doors to the barn were opened long ago.
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience
    well, that comes from poor judgement."
    A. A. Milne

  3. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Liam For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    26th February 12
    Location
    Lake in the Hills, IL
    Posts
    1,471
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Laws are laws, like it or not, this law has been around for a long long time, so as much as I think it's absurd it IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and as such, they must obey.
    "Everything is within walking distance if you've got the time"

  5. The Following User Says 'Aye' to GrainReaper For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    7,765
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm sure the logo for Coca-Cola breaks Heraldic Law too.

    The question is, is the logo of a firm/business/corporation "heraldry"?
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  7. #5
    Join Date
    10th June 10
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The interesting thing to note from the article is that the Lyon Court only became involved after a complaint from a member of the public; so I would hardly say it's Lord Lyon "going after" football clubs, as once it came to the Court's attention, they had no choice but to investigate and perform their duty of enforcing the law.

    It is unfortunate for the club, in this case, but the law is hardly a secret and avoiding something overtly heraldic in nature would not have been too difficult to do from the outset.

    I also want to make a minor correction: one of the interviewees referred to the logo as a "crest", though a crest, despite common usage of the word, is only the element displayed atop the helmet in a heraldic achievement and does not describe the shield or coat of arms.

  8. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Cygnus For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Join Date
    24th September 04
    Location
    Victoria, BC Canada 48 25' 47.31"N 123 20' 4.59" W
    Posts
    3,730
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And just in case anyone who may be wondering-----


    Our X Marks Crest ---



    Was seen by the former Lord Lyon, David Sellars, and described as "A handsome crest".

    So I guess we do not have to worry.

    While some may see the center as containing a St. Andrews cross it is actually a letter "X".
    Last edited by Steve Ashton; 22nd November 15 at 12:54 AM.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

  10. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to Steve Ashton For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Join Date
    26th February 12
    Location
    Lake in the Hills, IL
    Posts
    1,471
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    And just in case anyone who may be wondering-----


    Our X Marks Crest ---



    Was seen by the former Lord Lyon, David Sellars, and described as "A handsome crest".

    So I guess we do not have to worry.

    While some may see the center as containing a St. Andrews cross it is actually a letter "X".
    @Steve Ashton

    Were it in violation it wouldn't stop me
    Because I'm a bit of a scofflaw you see
    With this badge that I wear
    With nary a care
    A member of X-Marks I be!
    Last edited by GrainReaper; 22nd November 15 at 07:03 AM.
    "Everything is within walking distance if you've got the time"

  12. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to GrainReaper For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Join Date
    12th February 08
    Location
    Spokane, WA USA
    Posts
    626
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Maybe some canny graphics arts person could incorporate the 'A' and 'Y' in Ayr with the 'R' to create a saltire-like shape that could evoke the saltire without running afoul of the heraldry laws. Ah, well. As a Yank, I am too far removed and ignorant of the pertinent law to really 'have a dog in the hunt.'

    JMB

  14. #9
    Join Date
    16th September 10
    Posts
    1,223
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    The question is, is the logo of a firm/business/corporation "heraldry"?
    Not aimed at OC, as I feel sure he is as well-informed on this as he is elsewhere, but indeed prompted by that line.
    While I will admit my work with Coca-Cola predates my exposure to much talk of heraldry, I think the logo has no
    element which would qualify as heraldry. It's protection comes from copyright law. It could possibly come under
    the jurisdiction of the Lyon Court if Coca-Cola decided to pony up the fees for a grant of corporate arms, which
    start slightly north of twenty-five hundred pounds. Other heraldry organizations would, of course have their own
    process, fees, and various levels of jurisdiction. The Lyon Court has no jurisdiction over U.S. corporations, except
    their heraldic displays in Scotland.

    The laws governing heraldry in Scotland are considerably more ancient than sixty years, and are well known. The
    Lyon Court tends to be somewhat merciful if the display is not someone's arms misused without authority and no
    claim of arms is made. It clearly might be overlooked for quite some time, but when a complaint is registered, it must
    be processed. Complaint having been made, Lyon Court is merely enforcing laws as written.

    If any feel this process is unfair to the clubs, try telling the trooper who pulls you over on any major U.S. interstate
    highway that you've been driving above the speed limit for the last sixty years without being pulled over, so the state
    has forfeited it's right to prosecute you. I have my suspicions it would result in more than a warning, which is basically
    where the clubs stand.
    Last edited by tripleblessed; 30th November 15 at 01:16 PM.

  15. The Following 4 Users say 'Aye' to tripleblessed For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Join Date
    10th July 07
    Location
    Prescott Valley, AZ
    Posts
    102
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GrainReaper View Post
    Laws are laws, like it or not, this law has been around for a long long time, so as much as I think it's absurd it IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and as such, they must obey.
    I'm sure our Scottish forebears would have followed the law exactly. Lord knows the scots were not one to rebel against the letter of the law. the words 'they must obey' would probably have been antipathy to the them as they should be to us.
    Last edited by CamelCody; 7th December 15 at 08:18 PM.
    "The Scots have a transportable culture, you don't stop bein a Scot just because you live in America or Australia or anywhere else."

    Colin G. Calloway

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0