Matriculating Arms for a LIVING Ancestor?

**Cygnus** · 21st July 10, 10:17 AM

I've written the petition for a grant of arms for a Scottish ancestor of mine and have begun the arduous task of assembling the required proofs (and the even longer task of amassing the funds to pay the requisite fees).

Since the line of direct inheritance branches far from myself, I know I'll have to petition a matriculation of my ancestor's arms with suitable marks of difference. It only just occurred to me, however, that I am the first son in my family. My father is still alive (and I hope that he will be for a long while yet) and is an incredibly practical man that would have no interest in matriculating arms for himself. Which leads to my question - would it be possible for me to request the arms in his behalf (which my son and I can then use with the appropriate labels)?

I'm not sure exactly how one would go about it and I have thus far been unable to find anything on the subject.

It would also be nice to know in the event that I have another son - I think a matriculation of arms with a fitting signet ring would make for a very nice graduation present when the time comes.

**JSFMACLJR** · 21st July 10, 12:13 PM

You need to write Lyon Clerk and ask her these questions. She will have the correct answers. You will find her to be very approachable.

Good luck! It's a very enjoyable process.

**Chas** · 21st July 10, 12:23 PM

My understanding is that your father should be, at a minimum, willing for the matriculation to go forward. If he is not, well, Lord Lyon cannot force a matriculation on anybody.

I would discuss this with your father first.

Regards

Chas

**Cygnus** · 21st July 10, 01:07 PM

Sound advice from both of you, and I'm thankful for it!

I don't think my father would be opposed to the matriculation, though I don't think he'd understand my desire to go ahead with it. I would be drawing up the paperwork, corresponding with Lord Lyon (if/when needed), and otherwise doing all of the "leg work" and simply wanted to know if it was acceptable to act as my father's agent during the process.

Due to current circumstances (and an educator's salary), it will be a while before I am able to move ahead with this; I simply wanted to know if my time was being well-spent or if the process would require more of my father's involvement than I had anticipated.

I will send an inquiry to the Court of the Lord Lyon to determine what would be required both of myself and my father, then I will bring the subject up with him and ask if he would be willing to help.

Thank you, once again, for your help.

- Brian

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 21st July 10, 02:02 PM

Where was your grandfather born? If he was a Scot then it is straight forward to apply in his name and have the arms matriculated to your father, thence to you and your offspring.

If your only option is to seek out a grant in your father's name then he will have to designate you as his agent-- this is very straight forward and can be done in a simple letter to the Lord Lyon. All this letter has to say is something to the effect of:

Dear Lord Lyon,

I hereby appoint my eldest son Brian Swan to act in my behalf in the matter of my petition for a grant of arms.

Yours Truly, etc.

Have the signature notarized, and attach it to the petition. Could not be simpler.

**Cygnus** · 21st July 10, 02:11 PM

My father wasn't born in Scotland and was his father's second son. I've only just started accumulating the proofs to petition a grant of arms for my Great-Great-Great Grandfather. Matriculating a differenced version of those arms, assuming they're granted, for my own father is still a way off, but that is the ultimate goal.

My Great-Great-Grandfather was born in Scotland but came to the US as a young boy, but I feel a deeper connection with my third great grandfather, who was both a founding member of the Utah Caledonia Society and a dedicated civil servant, and so would prefer to honor him with a posthumous grant of arms.

I'm very glad to know that the process of acting as my father's agent in this matter will be straightforward.

Thank you!

**JSFMACLJR** · 21st July 10, 03:54 PM

I'm sure you already know about this, but I just want to check: do you have the same surname as your g-g-g grandfather, for whom you will be seeking a memorial grant?

**davidlpope** · 21st July 10, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

I'm sure you already know about this, but I just want to check: do you have the same surname as your g-g-g grandfather, for whom you will be seeking a memorial grant?

Good point, Sandy. In most cases Lyon Court will only have jurisdiction in cases where the same-surname bearing ancestor was a Scot.

David

**Cygnus** · 21st July 10, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

I'm sure you already know about this, but I just want to check: do you have the same surname as your g-g-g grandfather, for whom you will be seeking a memorial grant?

I do indeed - if it was an ancestor through one of my other family lines the genealogy and proof-finding would be a bit easier!

**creagdhubh** · 22nd July 10, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

You need to write Lyon Clerk and ask her these questions. She will have the correct answers. You will find her to be very approachable.

Good luck! It's a very enjoyable process.

Precisely. I went through the same process-it took a while, it was expensive, but Sandy is correct, it is quite an enjoyable and memorable process. The result is extraordinary. Good luck!