[saharris]

Hi all,

I am in the process of designing arms for myself (and have been for quite a while now). My question to all of my fellow heralds out there is: What heraldic charges, ordinaries, etcetera, would you consider to be unmistakenly Scottish? I’ve got thistles and the royal tressure, but what else can I add to the list for my consideration?

Thanks, Steven

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by saharris

Hi all,

I am in the process of designing arms for myself (and have been for quite a while now). My question to all of my fellow heralds out there is: What heraldic charges, ordinaries, etcetera, would you consider to be unmistakenly Scottish? I’ve got thistles and the royal tressure, but what else can I add to the list for my consideration?

Thanks, Steven

Steven,

The Heraldry Society of Scotland has this article on its web site:

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/distinctive.html

Regards,

T.

[Chas]

Gyrony of eight and/or a Fess Checky say Scotland to me.

Regards

Chas

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Originally Posted by Chas

Gyrony of eight and/or a Fess Checky say Scotland to me.

Regards

Chas

They say "Campbell" and "Stewart" to me. Heraldically speaking, only the Scottish Royal Arms say "Scotland".

If you can prove that you are of Scottish descent, why don't you just petition the Lord Lyon for arms? It would seem to me that a substantive (ie: real) coat of arms would be more desirable than something made up on your kitchen table.

[davidlpope]

Sandford had previously posted this link about specific heraldric devices in West Highland heraldry. It's a good read-

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/westhigh.html

Cordially,

David

[davidlpope]

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

If you can prove that you are of Scottish descent, why don't you just petition the Lord Lyon for arms? It would seem to me that a substantive (ie: real) coat of arms would be more desirable than something made up on your kitchen table.

I've recently looked into this and it may be more difficult than first appears. I can document Scottish descent, but am not eligible for a grant of Scottish arms. One must be directly descended in the male/ surname-bearing line and have solid documentation to prove it. For those whose ancestors recently immigrated, this works out quite well. For those of us whose ancestors came over very early, solid documentation can be a problem. Likewise, for those of us in the US who bear English-descended surnames, etc., the Lord Lyon has no jurisdiction, as I understand it.


Cordially,

David

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Originally Posted by davidlpope

I've recently looked into this and it may be more difficult than first appears. I can document Scottish descent, but am not eligible for a grant of Scottish arms. One must be directly descended in the male/ surname-bearing line and have solid documentation to prove it. For those whose ancestors recently immigrated, this works out quite well. For those of us whose ancestors came over very early, solid documentation can be a problem. Likewise, for those of us in the US who bear English-descended surnames, etc., the Lord Lyon has no jurisdiction, as I understand it.

Broadly speaking you are correct. Lyon will only grant to those persons who bear the same surname as their closest Scottish born ancestor. There may be ways around this (each case is weighed on its own merits) but it can be very difficult to claim arms through female descent.

However, all is not lost. For persons of Scottish (or Irish or English) ancestry in the USA who do not otherwise qualify for arms in one of the above listed jurisdictions, the best option is to apply to the Bureau of Heraldry in South Africa for a grant of arms.

[Mr. MacDougall]

The United States has no armorial authority, and frankly, an American citizen seeking a grant of arms from another country is a bit silly and pretentious, in my view. If you want arms, adopt them.

(and yes, I'm also known as Björn the Navigator, Black Boar Herald of the Barony of Tir Ysgithr, so I do know about that armorial authority, but so does anyone to whom it applies).

[cajunscot]

Originally Posted by Mr. MacDougall

The United States has no armorial authority, and frankly, an American citizen seeking a grant of arms from another country is a bit silly and pretentious, in my view. If you want arms, adopt them.

(and yes, I'm also known as Björn the Navigator, Black Boar Herald of the Barony of Tir Ysgithr, so I do know about that armorial authority, but so does anyone to whom it applies).

Horses for courses and all that, sir. You are free to disagree, but why mock those who do?

T.

[Lachlan09]

I would think of heraldic devices which have a Scottish flavour to include:- thistles, other plant badges, St Andrew, stag’s head, birlinn (oared galley with sails), claymore, broadsword, castle tower, salmon, golden eagle, pine marten, wild-cat, cas-chrom, pot-helmet, 16th Century reiver’s helmet etc.

I don’t think things like a gyrony of eight, fess checkys and bends etc etc are particularly Scottish, despite association with Campbells etc.