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  1. #21
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by freep View Post
    Who here has at least seen a bit of the tv show or read a bit of the books, then?
    Me! I've read all eight books, and both of the Outlandish Companions. I have season 1 on disc, and both soundtrack albums. I admit it. I'm an Outlander junkie.

    Mark

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiltedcontractor View Post
    I watch with my wife. She has read all the books. We actually look foward to it. I realize that the story is fictional but i do not think that gives them the right to take so many liberties with historical accuracy. We watch for entertainment value not history lesson. It has caused us to research things we might not have otherwise.
    What historical inaccuracies have you noted?
    Slāinte mhath!

    Freep is not a slave to fashion.
    Aut pax, aut bellum.

  4. #23
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    I've a history degree and have come to find that there are movies, tv shows and books in the historical fiction genre that cover the spectrum from abysmal (Braveheart, Reign, Breakheart Pass) to so-so (The Patriot, Dances With Wolves) to pretty decent (IMO Outlander, Vikings and others). If you demand outright exact accuracy from any sort of fiction you're doomed to disappointment. For that matter such disappointment will follow you into the full-on study of history. The amount of inaccuracy of even original sources is stunning.

    So, in order to be able to watch and read historical fiction I find a policy of noting the minor foibles in storytelling, promising myself to write the producers a stern note (which I never actually do) and enjoying the rest of the movie, tv show or book to be most useful. I would also point out that I've learned a lot about things and events outside of my specialty as a result of researching some little detail that didn't seem quite right. Sometimes I've even been surprised t find such details were actually correct.
    Last edited by freep; 13th March 16 at 03:26 PM.
    Slāinte mhath!

    Freep is not a slave to fashion.
    Aut pax, aut bellum.

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  6. #24
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    I must apologize. I did not mean to indicate that outlander has many inaccuracies. There are some minor questione re:costuming(from what ive read), ive also seen discussions that indicate a woman would never get away with some of Claire s antics. The slight shifting of witch trial dates (about 20 yrs as i understand it) is a minor infraction. Some other fictional/historical shows are abusive to history . I see that as a trend to make story lines. As much as i love Viking series, they are offenders. Rollo and Ragnar are around 100 yrs apart. There are more , this is not the forum.

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  8. #25
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    All I can say about the Outlander Gaelic is that I, with my rudimentary first-year University Gaelic, can often follow what is being said fairly well.

    I was astounded that the producers had the courage to have long scenes in which all, or nearly all, the conversation is in Gaelic, and without subtitles!

    Scots may not realize that the Disney/Pixar movie Brave was shown in some theatres in the US with subtitles. This amazed me, as (to me) the English was plain as day. Likewise, the first Mad Max movie is still shown on US TV with Mel Gibson's voice dubbed with an American voice actor.

    This being the case, I imagine it was a hard sell to the American producers, to have all the Gaelic dialogue without subtitles in Outlander. It makes perfect sense, because the whole point is that this woman is in an alien place. The audience is seeing it through her eyes, and since she doesn't have subtitles neither do we.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 14th March 16 at 07:07 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  10. #26
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    One of the things I liked best about "The Thirteenth Warrior" was the way they dealt with the Arab learning Norse. At first sitting round the fire, all that is heard is Norse. As time passes the an Arabic (actually English) word or two creeps in. As the journey progresses more and more is understandable until (as I recall) one of the Norsemen makes a rude comment about our Arab hero who curses him back in accented though fluent Norse. Well done directors John McTiernan and Michael Crichton.
    Slāinte mhath!

    Freep is not a slave to fashion.
    Aut pax, aut bellum.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by neloon View Post
    claimed to have recovered a moribund dialect of Western Apache on the basis of a single(!) contact.
    Actually this is common with Native American languages. There are a large number of languages which have very few surviving speakers or a single surviving speaker.

    Oftentimes this person dies with the language never having been recorded in any form, and is lost forever.

    In the lucky few cases someone has been prescient enough to record the last speaker. Any reconstruction must, therefore, be based on the "single contact" you mention. There ain't no more.

    Found this bit online... don't know if it's accurate or not.

    According to a recent survey, out of hundreds of languages that were once spoken in North America, only 194 remain. Of these, 33 are spoken by both adults and children; another 34 are spoken by adults, but by few children; 73 are spoken almost entirely by adults over 50; 49 are spoken only by a few people, mostly over 70; and 5 may have already become extinct.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 14th March 16 at 07:23 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiltedcontractor View Post
    I must apologize. I did not mean to indicate that outlander has many inaccuracies. There are some minor questione re:costuming(from what ive read), ive also seen discussions that indicate a woman would never get away with some of Claire s antics. The slight shifting of witch trial dates (about 20 yrs as i understand it) is a minor infraction. Some other fictional/historical shows are abusive to history . I see that as a trend to make story lines. As much as i love Viking series, they are offenders. Rollo and Ragnar are around 100 yrs apart. There are more , this is not the forum.
    I did not mean to imply you did. I'm curious as to what you did catch. Finding historical inaccuracies or continuity flaws (When the armistice is announced Claire is standing outside and given a bottle of white wine. The next shot shows her with a bottle of red wine) or those things that make me wonder what the actual history says about it.

    I like Vikings (even though "viking" is a verb and not a noun. One isn't a Viking, one goes viking i.e. raiding). I'm willing to give them a bit of leeway as for the first season I fact checked and while Ragar did not do everything they portray in the movie, someone in Norse history did. Much like the setup for the Lindesfarne raid--by the era depicted in the show, the existence of England was well known to the Norse, it was just a tough slog to get over there. As to Rollo, I'd always assumed he was a fictional character like Floki et al. I know how the real Ragnar allegedly died and I'm curious as to when we're going to get to that. I've not checked them lately and the raid on Paris didn't seem quite right to me. I'll check again, maybe soon. ;)

    Oh, and viking is properly pronounced "wicking." At least in Swedish and Norwegian. As I recall from that trip the Danes say, "Meh, have some schnapps!"
    Last edited by freep; 14th March 16 at 07:26 PM.
    Slāinte mhath!

    Freep is not a slave to fashion.
    Aut pax, aut bellum.

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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Actually this is common with Native American languages. There are a large number of languages which have very few surviving speakers or a single surviving speaker.

    Oftentimes this person dies with the language never having been recorded in any form, and is lost forever.

    In the lucky few cases someone has been prescient enough to record the last speaker. Any reconstruction must, therefore, be based on the "single contact" you mention. There ain't no more.
    Well stated. A couple years ago I went to Alaska and was pleased to find a strong movement to preserve and restore Tlingit to its people. Diversity lost in any field is sad at best.
    Slāinte mhath!

    Freep is not a slave to fashion.
    Aut pax, aut bellum.

  17. #30
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    It's sobering, here in California.

    A language in the San Francisco Bay area, last speaker died 1934.

    A language along the Southern California coast, last speaker died 1965.

    Another California language, last speaker died in 2013.

    And on it goes. They don't even know how many languages California possessed, pre-contact.

    On the left are the tribal groups (each with their own language) and on the right are the large number of different language families these are members of (seems to be following the Joseph Greenberg classification scheme)



    I was enormously honoured to be blessed by the Chief of the Chumash Nation a number of years ago. He spoke some phrases in Chumash. Afterwards I asked him about it, and he expressed great regret that he hadn't learned more Chumash from his parents, both speakers, both long since lost to us. All he knew were a few phrases, he told me.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 15th March 16 at 05:22 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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