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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Thomson View Post
    You didn't understand what I said correctly...

    My point was that doubtless Clan McDonald have dealt indignities to others, which have been missed in the popular narritive. Stop believing your clan is any whiter or righter than any other.
    I don't believe that anyone in this thread has made that claim.

    The OP was simply a memorial for the massacre and every MacDonald here has acknowledged the moral failings of our own clan's past. You're the only one who seems to be taking it personally.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Thomson View Post
    You didn't understand what I said correctly...

    My point was that doubtless Clan McDonald have dealt indignities to others, which have been missed in the popular narritive. Stop believing your clan is any whiter or righter than any other.

    At the end of the day every Highland Clan (& come to think of it Border when thry had their lawless times) was reiving, murdering & pursuing blood fueds & generally terrorising any individual they percieved as fair game by stripping them of their livelyhood and possessions.

    I also said they had suffered worse as already been pointed out, but if you need documentation I suggest one enjoyable, albeit secondary source is Tales of the Scottish Highlands.

    Funnily enough there's also evidence to show that Clan Campbell respected and gave hospitality to even those who asked for sanctuary after perpetuating wrongs against them.

    The issue with blaming a clan for the actions of a regiment, albeit jokingly is that there is a huge pool of idiots out there for who films & fictionalised books, or popular history.is their only source (including 'taking in jokes' seriously) who continue to believe that it was a clan Campbell action & I came across a couple of eejits who were quiet psychotic about it (one of them was also obviously so delusional as to believe himself to be Lord Lyon as he thought he was entitled to question my right to wear the Kilt my Grandfather had woven & Kilted for him... ;) ).

    Clan Campbell has undeservedly been cast as a folk demon off the back of lies, half truths and petty jealousy about the fact it's chiefs were astute operators who knew exactly which way to jump, getting it wrong only on one occasion).

    Funny I've not spotted any threads on recalling the persecution & attrocities perpetuated on Covenantors by popular 'Folk Heroes' like Bonny Dundee....

    There's two sides to every story.
    I really don't see that there is any miscommunication is here as you are repeating yourself quite a bit. I'm not denying there were other atrocities happening in Clan times, but my point is: why bring it up on a forum post about this tragedy. Its like blaming the victims. Start your own post about how you hate the way Campbells are treated. The only thing that you said that I don't understand is whatever "whiter and righter" means (outdated term?). I see what your getting at, but I never once said that "my clan is so great and would never commit atrocities" I just said 1: why bring it up without citing your sources, and 2: don't insinuate that everybody hates the Campbells over a false story.

    There may be a large pool of "eejits" who take the false narrative and the joking too seriously, but in the grand scheme they are still in the minority like I said before. Personal anecdotes aren't statistics. Also, I tried to point it out before, but you keep calling it Clan McDonald. That's not the name of the clan.

  3. #33
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    It's not about blaming the victims, it's about pointing out that when discussing an event which has a misapportioned blame & lots of untrue myths surrounding it that recognition be given to the truth of the matter.

    At the very least I'm saying let's view this in the context of the time & not according to our modern values & the popular narrative on the matter.

    You stated that I said worse things had happened at the hand of Clan Donald. That implied to me that you hadn't really understood what I had said. Hence my need to reassert what I actually said (or as you put it repeating myself).

    Whiter than white has nothing to do with racial terms if that's what you are suggesting, it just means in terms of how an individuals level of 'sin' was judged. It's a common enough expression & as far as I was aware even in this PC timevwhere we are told we should take offence at everything there's not many objections to the use of the phrase....

  4. #34
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    Is this whole episode not down to William of Orange asserting his authority following the Jacobite defeat. Massacres seem a common happening in those days and a remote highland clan would have seemed dispensable at the time.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Thomson View Post
    It's a common enough expression & as far as I was aware even in this PC timevwhere we are told we should take offence at everything there's not many objections to the use of the phrase....
    I believe the phrase is a corollary to "as pure as the driven snow" in intent and connotation.

  6. #36
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    I'll acknowledge that I misread you as saying they've done "worse" when you actually just said there are "historical indignities they have carried out against others". Either way my point doesn't change.

    In my opinion, bringing up "other" atrocities and expressing your own disdain for people that have the wrong idea of what really happened seems a bit disrespectful and out of place when discussing this particular massacre. I just wanted to make sure your words didn't sway the minds of casual readers into thinking all Mc/MacDonalds felt that way. Even if that was not your intent, I felt like it could be perceived that way.

    Thanks to those who explained the phrase. I'm not offended by it per se, though its purpose was to paint me as someone who thinks my clan is superior and can do no wrong when it's been established that I never said that. I just recommend you stick with the older version of "as pure as the driven snow" instead of going around saying "whiter or righter".

    I don't think there is much more to be said here so instead of going back and forth I'll stop posting on this particular matter.

  7. #37
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    Shot across the bow, folks -

    Nobody's there yet in my opinion, but Rule 2 comes to mind for this discussion.

    Father Bill for the Forum Moderators.
    Rev'd Father Bill White: Retired Parish Priest & Elementary Headmaster, lover of God, people (most of them!) dogs, joy, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, dreamer, traditionalist, bon-vivant, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Sinclair.

  8. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Father Bill For This Useful Post:


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